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androbot01
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15 May 2017, 10:02 am

Jacoby wrote:
You and a bunch of other people are being hypocrites since you feigned so much outrage about Trump's campaign 'encouraging violence' when the entire time it has been leftists that are the main perpetrators of political violence in this country and were behind almost every incidence during the campaign. Understandable that you disagree since it completely knocks the legs out of your argument but you can't change that now. Those Trump rally violence threads would probably be a good bump.

Strawmen, threats and obfuscation. Are you capable of discussing the issues?



Jacoby
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15 May 2017, 10:26 am

androbot01 wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
You and a bunch of other people are being hypocrites since you feigned so much outrage about Trump's campaign 'encouraging violence' when the entire time it has been leftists that are the main perpetrators of political violence in this country and were behind almost every incidence during the campaign. Understandable that you disagree since it completely knocks the legs out of your argument but you can't change that now. Those Trump rally violence threads would probably be a good bump.

Strawmen, threats and obfuscation. Are you capable of discussing the issues?


I talk about the issues more than anyone, some people are just too dense to reciprocate. Would you like to participate now?



androbot01
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15 May 2017, 10:34 am

Jacoby wrote:
Would you like to participate now?

Participate in what? Legitimizing your delusions?



Jacoby
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15 May 2017, 10:40 am

androbot01 wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Would you like to participate now?

Participate in what? Legitimizing your delusions?


Says the person who thinks Trump is a Russian Manchurian candidate, okay. :lol:

Putin gets 3 scoops of ice cream btw 8O



EzraS
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15 May 2017, 11:03 am

androbot01 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Actually those actions do represent them. That's what the liberal democrat side is associated with now. Violence and paranoia.

Only in your mind Ezra.


My mind must extend to countess people who have been making YouTube videos and comments, blog entries, forum posts and Tweets saying that's how they view liberal democrats since last November.

androbot01 wrote:
Strawmen, threats and obfuscation.


Only in your mind Anne :wink:



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16 May 2017, 9:01 am

EzraS wrote:
All you have to do is detach yourself from the political ideology you've let yourself get indoctrinated into, and see things in a nonpartisan objective way.

I am open to accept there are crazies on the democrat side as well. However don't you think the "non-violent" folk in the republican party are at best hiding their heads in the proverbial sand whenever trump says or does something embarrassing



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16 May 2017, 10:17 pm

I've been without a computer since last week, so I'm stepping late into this conversation. Very likely this has already been said, but the most obvious reasons why Trump fired Comey was because:
1) Trump wanted to stop Comey's investigation into his Russia ties.
2) During their personal dinner, Trump had asked Comey to lay off of Flynn, and to swear an oath of loyalty to him. Comey told him no on both counts.
For Trump to pull this stunt is indeed a constitutional crisis, similar to Nixon's firing of the Watergate special prosecutor, Archibald Cox. In both cases, a delusional President thought himself above the law in obstructing justice.


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EzraS
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17 May 2017, 1:36 am

cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
All you have to do is detach yourself from the political ideology you've let yourself get indoctrinated into, and see things in a nonpartisan objective way.

I am open to accept there are crazies on the democrat side as well. However don't you think the "non-violent" folk in the republican party are at best hiding their heads in the proverbial sand whenever trump says or does something embarrassing


I think all folks are capable of violence. But the thing is, this one side made it clear that it was going to be the other side who would get all violent and act all crazy if they lost. Whereas they wouldn't, because they were so far above such behavior.

That's the difference and why the way they've conducted themselves stands out so much more and seems so much more deplorable.

As for the others hiding their heads in the sand, I'm not sure it's that or just them failing to flip out over every little thing.



cyberdad
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17 May 2017, 2:36 am

EzraS wrote:
I think all folks are capable of violence. But the thing is, this one side made it clear that it was going to be the other side who would get all violent and act all crazy if they lost. Whereas they wouldn't, because they were so far above such behavior.


I think reasonable people would refrain from violence but there is a feeling, particularly among younger Americans, that the views of voters who elected Trump are not representative of their own views. This is to partly protest against Trump but also to let the world know there are level headed people in America who did not vote for Donald Trump



cyberdad
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17 May 2017, 2:40 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
For Trump to pull this stunt is indeed a constitutional crisis, similar to Nixon's firing of the Watergate special prosecutor, Archibald Cox. In both cases, a delusional President thought himself above the law in obstructing justice.

The latest news suggest that Trump could indeed be impeached but I suspect he's going to survive this one . With the upcoming jousting with North Korea perhaps America needs a hardline negotiator, however the stakes are high. If the US carpet bombed North Korea with nuclear weapons the fallout would still kill a third of the world's population. Lets hope the cards fall the right way.



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17 May 2017, 2:57 am

cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
For Trump to pull this stunt is indeed a constitutional crisis, similar to Nixon's firing of the Watergate special prosecutor, Archibald Cox. In both cases, a delusional President thought himself above the law in obstructing justice.

The latest news suggest that Trump could indeed be impeached but I suspect he's going to survive this one . With the upcoming jousting with North Korea perhaps America needs a hardline negotiator, however the stakes are high. If the US carpet bombed North Korea with nuclear weapons the fallout would still kill a third of the world's population. Lets hope the cards fall the right way.


Thing is though, does reality match of with the myth of Trump's negotiating skills? Possibly, he could make things worse, or even cave into Kim. Last I heard, Trump was speaking well of Kim personally, as after all, he loves his strongmen.
As for impeachment - I wouldn't hold my breath with both houses of congress in Republican hands, but that situation might change come the midterm elections.


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EzraS
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17 May 2017, 4:20 am

cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
For Trump to pull this stunt is indeed a constitutional crisis, similar to Nixon's firing of the Watergate special prosecutor, Archibald Cox. In both cases, a delusional President thought himself above the law in obstructing justice.

The latest news suggest that Trump could indeed be impeached but I suspect he's going to survive this one . With the upcoming jousting with North Korea perhaps America needs a hardline negotiator, however the stakes are high. If the US carpet bombed North Korea with nuclear weapons the fallout would still kill a third of the world's population. Lets hope the cards fall the right way.


I'd say if the pro-Trump side starts worrying about an impeachment, then there might be a likelihood.

If it's just the anti-Trump side hoping for an impeachment and saying this is it, then it's just the same old thing they've been saying all along and it will continue for years.

And why would the US need to carpet bomb N. Korea with nukes? They didn't need to carpet bomb Iraq with nukes.



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17 May 2017, 12:15 pm

Jacoby wrote:
You and a bunch of other people are being hypocrites since you feigned so much outrage about Trump's campaign 'encouraging violence' when the entire time it has been leftists that are the main perpetrators of political violence in this country and were behind almost every incidence during the campaign. Understandable that you disagree since it completely knocks the legs out of your argument but you can't change that now. Those Trump rally violence threads would probably be a good bump.

androbot01 wrote:
Strawmen, threats and obfuscation. Are you capable of discussing the issues?


Conservatism is almost conquered, in the present day, so that even elected officials are incapable of functioning, under heavy, public shaming and just-plain vandalism. For instance, 'Wannacry,' preventing surgeries, and hundreds of pounds of human feces, left by 'Occupy.' They are concerned, not about victory, for the left, but about pyrrhic victory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhic_victory

"It's About That Time..." video
"Right Wing News!" channel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... C8OWLs_DTk

(I'm Jewish, just offering this as a discussion on the issue of demographic displacement.)
"not shadowbanned yet" channel
Disturbing Content Warning -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJaBEemYUHU

The animal carcases were not simply edited-in, for dramatic effect. The Boer farmer is making an important point. The savages are not simply taking, to fill a need, ie, stealing the proverbial loaf of bread. They are destroying it, for other people.

When we see riot situations, here, in the US, there is usually no assumption that the aggrieved party will assume the responsibilities of ownership, say, of some building development, chain franchise, etc. For instance, the Russian Federation succeeded the USSR, by assuming it's debt load (no matter how odiously). By contrast, today's left would eventually raze the ground and sow salt, so that nothing will ever grow there, ever again.

It's nihilism. This is not the same as the Enlightenment ideals of moral free agency.

What seems to happen, time and again, is societies degenerate into an unstable, anarchist sort-of status. At this point, all different kinds-of ideologies crowd in, to solve the logistical problems of a dysfunctional state. I like anarchy, as a philosophy, and as a cgi youtube cartoon. It's edgy, it's conscientious, and might really work, if all people, everywhere, were so laissez-fair. But, most are elitist, at heart. 31 flavors of identity politics, in competition, or just wrecking stuff, with no ultimatums and no finish line. There is no win-win, because they can never be satisfied, unto the bitter end.

When people worked for hundreds of years on a cathedral or they lived their whole lives, for a tulip craze, at least, they valued something constructive and altruistic, no matter how arbitrary.



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17 May 2017, 1:47 pm

EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
For Trump to pull this stunt is indeed a constitutional crisis, similar to Nixon's firing of the Watergate special prosecutor, Archibald Cox. In both cases, a delusional President thought himself above the law in obstructing justice.

The latest news suggest that Trump could indeed be impeached but I suspect he's going to survive this one . With the upcoming jousting with North Korea perhaps America needs a hardline negotiator, however the stakes are high. If the US carpet bombed North Korea with nuclear weapons the fallout would still kill a third of the world's population. Lets hope the cards fall the right way.


I'd say if the pro-Trump side starts worrying about an impeachment, then there might be a likelihood.

If it's just the anti-Trump side hoping for an impeachment and saying this is it, then it's just the same old thing they've been saying all along and it will continue for years.

And why would the US need to carpet bomb N. Korea with nukes? They didn't need to carpet bomb Iraq with nukes.


If North Korea was nuked, I suppose the justification would be given that they have nuclear weapons as well, whereas Iraq did not.


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17 May 2017, 1:58 pm

Further debate seems pointless in the face of such a flood of distractions, but I have to wait for updates on my desktop. The WMD lies came via Bush/Blair political pressure. Sounds like DJT's style, too, based on events to date.


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17 May 2017, 4:04 pm

EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
If you want a civil war then keep supporting this because that is where this is heading, you think if they do manage to overthrow Trump that the next president will have any authority? This is the end of the United States, if their is no reciprocation then there is nothing left to do besides kill each other. You'll have to worry about a lot more than a forest station being occupied. Remember what JFK said about democratic revolution, by denying it you're making violent revolution inevitable.

There hasn't been a peaceful transfer of power, this democracy is a joke and facade. Democrat 'resistance' is destroying this country.


Lets not get carried away. virtually all the anti-Trump protest has been non-violent. The right have eagerly scoured for footage of riots to stir up the redneck masses.


Peaceful? Hardly. The definition of peaceful in this case seems defined by protests which lack vandalism, arson and physical assaults - of which there have still been a plenitude of for which scouring for footage is hardly necessary.

There's hours of footage of insane Trump derangement behavior readily and permanently available. But even barring those extremes, they've hardly been all that peaceful. Or dignified for that matter.

All those scores of liberals acting exactly the way they predicted the rednecks would act. Showing the world the new term for a redneck, a deplorable, a radical, a drama-queen, a paranoiac etc is, a liberal with Trump derangement syndrome.

And now the derangement has taken the form of a 17th century style witch hunt. I expect the final results of this to be inconclusive. But if there's an actual not guilty verdict, will it lead to further violent protests? Probably.


The violent protestors don't represent the rank and file democrat supporters who are by and large lower-middle class workers and students who are (on average) more educated than the average republican nutjob


Actually those actions do represent them. That's what the liberal democrat side is associated with now. Violence and paranoia. That's why you keep encountering it and keep having to make disclaimers.

And these are supposedly better educated people who have lower paying jobs than their supposedly less educated counterparts? That seems pretty non sequitur to me.

And if you're going to generalize who the nutjobs are, it's clearly the average democrat who's taken on the role of nutjob via democrats making death threats to electors, grand scale vandalism, arson, spitting in police officers faces, punching people out, trying to set people on fire, dressing up as genitalia and on and on.

Not the lest of which is a revival of McCarthyism style paranoia over Russia and the absurd blacklist witch hunt type investigations that go along with it, with a former SNL comedian and a fake Indian at the forefront demanding a special prosecutor.

All you have to do is detach yourself from the political ideology you've let yourself get indoctrinated into, and see things in a nonpartisan objective way.

First, I don't think you really look at things in a "detached way" and that your positions are much more ideological that yourself believe so.
Two, some so-called liberals may have been in violent manifestations, but I have yet to heard of liberals taking part of mass shooting like a few conservatives, or I should say fascists, did.
Three, some conservatives groups have paid protester to do violent acts in order to discredit liberals. (Don't remember the links of the videos)


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