Baltimore: ALL Confederate Statues Have Now Been Removed

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Aristophanes
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18 Aug 2017, 11:14 am

Campin_Cat wrote:

Aristophanes wrote:

Campin_Cat wrote:

Aristophanes wrote:

There's acknowledging bad parts of one's heritage and then there's promoting them, confederate monuments (lower case, they were never an officially recognized country) falls into the later. No country in the history of the world has ever allowed the flag of sedition to fly in it's own country, nor monuments for the traitors partaking in said sedition...except for this one, and there's a reason for that: it prevents closure and the society from moving forward, and here we are 150 years later...

What if it's merely because no one has an Amendment, like our first one?

False, both Greece and Rome had 'freedom of speech' which differed in meaning depending on period, as does our own, and still neither group allowed symbols that were openly antagonistic towards their society because that's just plain stupid. Also, I'm not advocating the government get involved in any way, the public shaming campaign for the institutions that harbor confederate symbols seems to be doing the job very nicely, there are some things society rectifies on it's own without government intervention, this is one of those cases. And furthermore who's speech actually been hindered by all these participation trophies being taken down? No one, because they were the property of the local governments that had them removed, not private citizens.

Now, if you're referring to the antifa protesters at the rally let me ask you this: should ISIS be allowed to have a march down Charlotteville unhindered by counter protesters? Because with this issue from where I'm looking at that's what you're asking ME to accept, and truth be told confederate traitors killed a s**t ton more Americans than ISIS ever will. All that said, there was still no violation of the first amendment, because that contract states: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." Nowhere in that clause does the government make guarantees that your freedom of speech can't be disrupted by other people, protested, or even mocked, it just states that the government will not get involved.

I am NOT, in ANY way asking you to accept ISIS "to have a march down Charlottesville"----that's LUDICROUS, IMO, because they're not citizens!!

Anyway, I've got all kinds of other things to say about this post----but, I'm not interested in bangin' my head against a wall, today; meaning, you and I will never change each other's minds, on this matter, so.....

And all I'll reply is: ISIS has members that are U.S. citizens (which should be revoked the minute they take up arms against the country, but it's not the law so here we are), Canadian citizens and British citizens. Now if those American citizens who also happen to support ISIS planned a march you would be correct in saying they have every right under free speech to hold their march, but I would also expect a giant counter demonstration and not much of a complaint about it. That's the way I feel about the modern confederate supporters: they're free to speak their mind and I'm free to call them out for being the traitors they are, and if the numbers are on my side (which they are) we'll raise so much hell that their symbols are taken down merely to prevent civil unrest-- that's the way society operates, regardless of era or government system.

Last edited by Aristophanes on 18 Aug 2017, 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

Raptor
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18 Aug 2017, 11:18 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

Raptor wrote:

Misslizard wrote:

Maybe a statue of Robert E.Lee doesn't belong in a public park,but if someone wants one in their front yard,then it's their right,no matter how odious some find it.Of course the owner of the statue is going to pay hell for it every Halloween.

I don't see why it wouldn't belong in a public park. Statues if Lee and other Confederate generals have been around in public places for over 100 years. Are all statues to be banned from public parks? What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. People need to toughen up a little and stop letting others tell them how to feel.

Perhaps you need to toughen up and accept that these statues are going down.

Why do you want these statues anyway? Are you emotionally attached to them? Why?

Face it. These statues are going down and there's nothing you can do about it.

NOTHING

U mad bro?

Wouldn't bother me a small fraction as much as the Trump presidency is bothering you. Every one of your butthurt little anti-Trump/anti-conservative rants is a pleasure to read.

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Raptor
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18 Aug 2017, 11:22 am

rick sanchez wrote:

Raptor wrote:

rick sanchez wrote:

Raptor wrote:

Misslizard wrote:

That is a f*****g weak argument.

Haven't seen you make one yet. Being obnoxious, trolling, and name calling isn't making an argument.

Quote:

If you are going to use that the stop using your computer.

Gonna make me stop?

Another weak one, "your arguments are weak, so mine dont have to be."

Your opinion means very little to me, but I am offended by stupidity.

But you keep reading my posts anyway.

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AspieUtah
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18 Aug 2017, 11:30 am

Since statues are symbolic speech, shouldn't everyone with an opinion about them remember the words of author Evelyn Beatrice Hall when she wrote the famous phrase "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" --The Friends of Voltaire (1906)?

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ASS-P
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18 Aug 2017, 11:39 am

...How many of the original supporters of the states lynched or mauled somone racistly and were never punished for it? How many present- day pro-Cs were born because their killer/mauler ancestors got away with it? SUCH a " heritage " .
What's preventing the present-day pro-Cs from, after acquiring the disputed statues (which I have gone on record here as saying I don't support the total annialation of) and displaying them on private land? They could lead daily cakewalking and banjo sessions in front of them! :mrgreen:

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Misslizard
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18 Aug 2017, 11:57 am

Aristophanes wrote:

Misslizard wrote:

Aristophanes wrote:

Misslizard wrote:

/\ yes we were.Not that it was a good thing.
Was this child a traitor?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Owen_Dodd

Never heard of him, and nothing in the article mentioned him taking arms up against the United States, he was merely a civilian casualty which are actually the majority of casualties in most armed conflicts.

He was tried and hung like a traitor.Off course you haven't heard of him,not like the Union (or any army)would brag about hanging a child.Both sides did their fair share of atrocities,just like any war.

I never said they didn't, it's war, atrocities happen as do mistakes. None of that changes the fact that confederates took up arms against their democratically elected government which is the very definition of traitor. Sorry but there's no excuses or equivocations that wash that repugnant smell away. I will say the same thing about Dodd that I do about Tecumseh Sherman: had the south worked in the democratic process set up by our forefathers none of those events would have happened.

And some considered it traitorous to take up arms against their state and the people that lived there.
Slavery should have been abolished.it was a mistake our founding fathers allowed and later it had to be righted with blood on both sides.So if those forefathers hadn't allowed it,the war would have never happened.

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ASPartOfMe
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18 Aug 2017, 12:08 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

Raptor wrote:

Misslizard wrote:

Most Americans probably agree with you more then not on the issues. But it is the cockiness and condensation of a lot of left that is one reason Trump got in. I want him removed most of all because his "personality" is the exact opposite of what is required for the job and puts the world at risk of nuclear armoggedon. However I believe if the resistance succeeds one nightmare will be replaced by another. The left will be emboldened in thier belief that they are superior morally and intellectually. They will run rampent overcorrecting while gleefully rubbing it in the face of their opposition. People or organizations deemed racist, sexist or hater might be deemed terrorists. The continuing clashes in the street will be used as justification. People will get sick of it and a competent fascist will gain power and we would find out what real right wing authoritism is unlike Trump's realty show, snowflake version of it we got now.

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Campin_Cat
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18 Aug 2017, 6:22 pm

Raptor wrote:

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

Raptor wrote:

People need to toughen up a little and stop letting others tell them how to feel.

Perhaps you need to toughen up and accept that these statues are going down. Why do you want these statues anyway? Are you emotionally attached to them? Why?

Wouldn't bother me a small fraction as much as the Trump presidency is bothering you. Every one of your butthurt little anti-Trump/anti-conservative rants is a pleasure to read.

And, why a CANADIAN is having rants about the U.S. president, et al., is beyond ME, anyway!!

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naturalplastic
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18 Aug 2017, 6:28 pm

Its a thorny issue.

Maybe the nation should take a breather for a few months before we rush headlong either preserving or getting rid of statues across the land.

But Chief Justince Taney is an exception.

That taking down his statue is long overdue is a no brainer.

No can deny that he needs to go immediately.

Campin_Cat
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18 Aug 2017, 6:30 pm

AspieUtah wrote:

Oh, COOL----I've said / heard that quote, a million-and-one times, but could never remember who said it----and, I like it even MORE, now, cuz a woman said it; let's hear it, for the girls!! LOL (wink)

kraftiekortie
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18 Aug 2017, 6:34 pm

Taney was the guy who signed off on the Dred Scott decision----which basically precluded African-Americans from ever becoming citizens within the context of the ante-bellum United States.

The decision also provided authorization for Southern masters to retrieve their "property" from the North. Of course, this was part and parcel of the Compromise of 1850--but it provided more teeth for this provision.

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18 Aug 2017, 6:46 pm

Another racist Confederate statue has been vandalized in New Orleans: the statue of Joan of Arc! (I think she commanded an Alabama regiment at Little Round Top and owned a plantation full of slaves. Or something.)

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/ ... ti_te.html

(Joan of Arc lived in France in the 1400s.) :lol:

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kraftiekortie
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18 Aug 2017, 6:52 pm

You've got to be kidding!

Raptor
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18 Aug 2017, 6:56 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:

Raptor wrote:

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

Raptor wrote:

People need to toughen up a little and stop letting others tell them how to feel.

Perhaps you need to toughen up and accept that these statues are going down. Why do you want these statues anyway? Are you emotionally attached to them? Why?

Wouldn't bother me a small fraction as much as the Trump presidency is bothering you. Every one of your butthurt little anti-Trump/anti-conservative rants is a pleasure to read.

And, why a CANADIAN is having rants about the U.S. president, et al., is beyond ME, anyway!!

Hint: It lives under a bridge and eats goats.

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naturalplastic
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18 Aug 2017, 7:03 pm

The legal lingo version of Tanney's "achievement" was to declare that "slaves are not citizens".

But he himself summed up his decision in one colloquial sentence: "No Negro has any rights that any White man needs respect".

To honor him with a statue is to honor that statement .

Honoring fallen soldiers of your state, even if they died for a questionable cause, is one thing.
But Tanney being honored is something else entirely IMHO.

naturalplastic
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18 Aug 2017, 7:10 pm

Darmok wrote:

Might be a sympathizer with the recent vandals of the Lincoln Memorial who were obviously retaliating against the vandals of the Confederate statues. Maybe they thought Joan of Arc was a Nineteenth Centurey American Abolishionist.

Or maybe the person just hates all Frenchies.

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