I hate conspiracy theories

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Tollorin
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21 Dec 2014, 8:00 pm

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Pilots for 9/11 truth have PROVEN IN COURT, that it is aerodynamically impossible to fly jumbo jets into skyscrapers.

How come a airplane can't crash into a skyscraper, it don't make sense to me. A jumbo jet can fly that low it need to do it with sufficient accuracy to able to land. What court!? Must not have been a official court.

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Is it a co-incidence that 'the plane', (which was likely actually a missile or a drone), struck on the GROUND FLOOR of the pentagon in the budget analysis office one day after 2.3 TRILLION DOLLARS was announced missing from the pentagon's accounting books on Sept.10th, 2001?

I don't know what are your sources, but I never heard about a 2.3 trillions dollars hole in Pentagon budget; not like it's something easily missing by the way. Also, how come you can't fly a airplane (A drone is a telecommanded airplane.) in a skyscraper but you can in the Pentagon?

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Enough time has passed that some people have gone through every video, and all of the sound recordings of this event, frame by frame, soundbite by soundbite, and they have PROVED that all of the televised video's of the event were faked- people believe what they see on TV !?

2001 special effects were not good enough to fake heavy smoke convincely, even on video of VHS quality. You also seem to forget there were thousand of witness; were they part of the conspiracy too!?



Tollorin
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21 Dec 2014, 8:14 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
The Open Chemical Physics Journal wrote:
...we conclude that the red layer of the red/gray chips we have discovered in the WTC dust is active, unreacted thermitic material, incorporating nanotechnology, and is a highly energetic pyrotechnic or explosive material.

Harrit, N.H., et al. "Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe." February 13, 2009.
http://www.benthamopen.com/tocpj/articl ... 7TOCPJ.pdf

My personal copy of the study was signed by Steven E. Jones, the former Brigham Young University professor who helped collect and analyze the dust samples from Manhattan residents. BYU subsequently terminated its employment of Jones when his initial studies were announced. This study recruited the assistance of eight other researchers led by Niels H. Harrit of the University of Copenhagen Department of Chemistry.

It is a relatively brief and easy read.

You will need something better than that.



AspieUtah
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21 Dec 2014, 8:50 pm

Tollorin wrote:
You will need something better than that....

The "Active Thermitic Material..." research paper mentions a secondary finding; that of the iron-rich spheres. Does the burning or ignition of drywall create these spheres?

http://911debunkers.blogspot.com/2011/0 ... -like.html
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/ther ... e_analysis


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Protogenoi
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21 Dec 2014, 10:51 pm

I personally like conspiracy theories...
Although I do get annoyed by many people who cling to the most extravagant, useless, and most provably wrong theories. I mean, we get such great things as X-Files from conspiracy theories...

And sometimes the theories come out to be true, like MKUltra.
Although, I would note that the ones that do turn out to be true tend to have been obscure.
I think it's worth considering the theories and making rational judgements about them while being skeptical.

For example, if you were to tell me that the U.S. Government uses children who are wards of the state, and even kidnaps children for unethical and/or illegal medical experimentation, I would accept that as a valid theory because there is historical precedent for that. I would then press for evidence for it.
If you were to tell me that the Government is run by alien reptiles, I would dismiss on the account that it's crazy and lacks real evidence.


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Tollorin
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21 Dec 2014, 11:29 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
You will need something better than that....

The "Active Thermitic Material..." research paper mentions a secondary finding; that of the iron-rich spheres. Does the burning or ignition of drywall create these spheres?

http://911debunkers.blogspot.com/2011/0 ... -like.html
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/ther ... e_analysis

Seem like this is not a evidence either.
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/debunked-iron-microspheres-in-9-11-wtc-dust-as-evidence-for-thermite.2523/
Occam's razor applied to 9/11 tell us that we should trust the official story, as it's the simplest explanation.



mpe
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22 Dec 2014, 1:09 am

Tollorin wrote:
Occam's razor applied to 9/11 tell us that we should trust the official story, as it's the simplest explanation.

I don't agree. It is one of the more complex and convoluted explanations, especially in terms of the number of people required to be "in on" the conspiracy. As well as failing to explain several things.



886
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22 Dec 2014, 3:06 am

Repent wrote:
that it is aerodynamically impossible to fly jumbo jets into skyscrapers.


then why did it happen :|


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kraftiekortie
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22 Dec 2014, 9:36 am

Planes were actually seen, on film, crashing into the WTC towers.



kraftiekortie
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22 Dec 2014, 9:42 am

As for the Lincoln assassination, it's been pretty well proven, in mainstream circles, that there were quite a few conspirators out to kill at least three people at the same time as Lincoln



slenkar
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22 Dec 2014, 10:05 am

How did Oswald get the job at the book depository a few weeks before the motorcade route was announced?

Why did 2 of the bullets he fired have different behaviour?

The first bullet went through about 5 or 6 body parts and wasnt badly damaged.
This is the behaviour of a full metal jacket round.

The third bullet hit kennedy in the head and shattered, this is the behaviour of a hollow-point round.



kraftiekortie
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22 Dec 2014, 10:07 am

One could walk into anywhere and get a job in 1963--or in 1980, for that matter. No resumes were required. All one had to do was fill out an application. Many people were hired on the same day.



SIDWULF
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22 Dec 2014, 10:16 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Planes were actually seen, on film, crashing into the WTC towers.


No doubt about that



AspieUtah
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22 Dec 2014, 11:03 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Planes were actually seen, on film, crashing into the WTC towers.

Yes. I agree that very real airplanes flew into the very real World Trade Center twin towers.

But..., a very similar idea had its origins within the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff in 1962 when its Chairman Lyman L. Lemnitzer signed documents known as Operation Northwoods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods which described and authorized of a series of proposals for action against the Cuban government, and sent the documents to U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara who presented the plan to President Kennedy who rejected the idea personally.

Specifically, Operation Northwoods proposed “[a] series of well coordinated incidents will be planned to take place in and around Guantanamo to give genuine appearance of being done by hostile Cuban forces.” The description of these incidents included the idea about how:

Operation Northwoods wrote:
...8. It is possible to create an incident which will demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civil airliner enroute from the United States....

a. An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone.

b. Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rendezvous south of Florida. From the rendezvous point the passenger-carrying aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly into an auxiliary field at Eglin AFB where arrangements will have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the aircraft to its original status. The drone aircraft meanwhile will continue to fly the filed flight plan. When over Cuba the drone will being transmitting on the international distress frequency a “MAY DAY” message stating he is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft. The transmission will be interrupted by destruction of the aircraft which will be triggered by radio signal. This will allow ICAO radio stations in the Western Hemisphere to tell the US what has happened to the aircraft instead of the US trying to “sell” the incident....

“Report by the Department of Defense and Joint Chiefs of Staff Representatives on the Caribbean Survey Group to the Joint Chiefs of Staff on Cuba Project (TS).” Pages 10 and 11. March 9, 1962. Available at http://media.nara.gov/media/images/36/15/36-1472a.jpg

So, the idea of a false-flag attack on the United States “to give genuine appearance of being done” by a hostile group or nation which would have included a “converted” “drone aircraft” which was “painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft[,]” the “destruction” of which would be “triggered by radio signal[,]” “to ‘sell’ the” pretext to the American public was all state-of-the-art military technology in 1962.

What should be terrifying for every American is that, in 1962, the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff had the technology and apparent willingness to do such a thing but for the action of one man who actually saw combat and knew of its evil. Can we so easily dismiss the idea that their successors had the same compulsion to provoke our nation’s longest war over a faked provocation two generations later?

Is it beyond possibility that the idea was dusted off years later by those (including Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz who were members of the Project for the New American Century which claimed in its September 2000 report titled Rebuilding America's Defenses that “the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event -- like a new Pearl Harbor”) who might have seen an advantage to “sell” the American public on a slightly different “enemy” especially at a time when the end of the Cold War had stalled corporate earnings for the otherwise robust “military industrial complex” about which President Eisenhower had warned us?


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kraftiekortie
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22 Dec 2014, 11:15 am

I guess the above scenario is theoretically possible--though I don't believe likely. I believe the concept of Islamic terrorism, in conjunction with our dependence on Middle East Oil, would have been sufficient to create a "new enemy." Nowadays, of course, Russia is seeking to become Soviet again, at least somewhat.

In truth, with all this technology at our disposal, ANYTHING is possible.



AspieUtah
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22 Dec 2014, 11:29 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
As for the Lincoln assassination, it's been pretty well proven, in mainstream circles, that there were quite a few conspirators out to kill at least three people at the same time as Lincoln

Hehe. Yes, it has. That was my point. We can agree that conspiracies exist beyond the semantics involved. Now, are the various theories about any given conspiracy valid? Maybe, maybe not. But, let's not castigate all explanations of conspiratorial crimes as bat-crap crazy. Instead, shouldn't we examine the evidence of any given explanation?

After all, the explanation proposed by the prosecuting attorneys in the Lincoln Assassination was only a "conspiracy theory" until a judge agreed with it; only then did it became legal fact.

Not all commentators in this topic have resorted to semantic tricks and insults, but enough have done so to warrant sharing the Lincoln example. :wink:


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