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Jitro
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25 Dec 2012, 5:35 pm

Can existence not exist without math?



TallyMan
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25 Dec 2012, 6:01 pm

Math is the foundation of reality. Without it there would be no existence.


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Trencher93
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25 Dec 2012, 6:03 pm

The answer depends on whether you think existence is a predicate or not.



richardbenson
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25 Dec 2012, 7:24 pm

Well, Since the great meatball spoke I'm shure math came out of his mouth and made us. :wink:



Krabo
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26 Dec 2012, 9:15 am

Last time this subject was discussed in a thread named similarly, I replied that existence is not a property. Existence itself depends on nothing, be it mathematics or whatever.


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nick007
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27 Dec 2012, 2:16 am

I know it's possible to exist without using math but I don't think anyone can know for sure rite now if existence depends on math or not. There was an ep of Star Trek The Next Generation where they were accidentally brought to part of the universe by a special alien where the laws of physics & other math formals didn't apply; instead it relied on their thoughts.


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slave
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27 Dec 2012, 8:57 pm

Jitro wrote:
Can existence not exist without math?


depend~~~no.

I think everything that exists can be described by Mathematics.


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27 Dec 2012, 9:00 pm

I don't think that mathematics does anything, or causes anything. It's just true. It has to be the way it is, and it couldn't be any other way.



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27 Dec 2012, 9:21 pm

Fractals upon fractals upon fractals, said the calico cat.



featherbrained
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27 Dec 2012, 10:38 pm

math is what keeps the balance, in life. without math there would be chaos.
before life as we know it there was most certainly chaos. there still is chaos. it did exist, and does exist. math or no math. however to be alive is to be a part of the great balance, part of mathematics.



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27 Dec 2012, 11:06 pm

The mathematics studied by mathematicians, logicians, and philosophers is a way of expressing intrinsic, fundamental laws and relations upon which reality is constructed. Without mathematics as a field of human study, there can certainly be existence. However, I believe your question is referring to the intrinsic, fundamental laws I mentioned above. These laws and relations constitute the semantic portion of a string of mathematical expressions written on paper. So, to answer your question directly: No, reality would simply be impossible without them.

In fact, you can't even conceive of a world that is devoid of these laws and relations because your mind, i.e. your reality, is constructed upon them. Every action, thought, and feeling is dependent on inherent mental 'categories' (as Immanuel Kant called them) -- space, time, etc. -- which are responsible for organizing data received by means of the senses. These mental categories are sort of like templates, and are, according to Kant, already present at the time of birth, but not yet fully developed until maturity. My theory, although lacking in concrete evidence but still valuable speculation, is that these categories of the mind, when thought of as templates for constructing reality, are made possible because there exists an external world that requires them.



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28 Dec 2012, 11:10 pm

Abstract_Logic wrote:
In fact, you can't even conceive of a world that is devoid of these laws and relations because your mind, i.e. your reality, is constructed upon them. Every action, thought, and feeling is dependent on inherent mental 'categories' (as Immanuel Kant called them) -- space, time, etc. -- which are responsible for organizing data received by means of the senses..


Very well put! But are you saying that creatures in any world would have to come up with the same mathematics, or are you saying that we simply cannot imagine a world in which different mathematics is required? And is there any meaningful difference between those two things?



ianorlin
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29 Dec 2012, 3:32 pm

The existence of roots does depend on math :lol: