Why females aren't taken seriously

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The thing is, women are all different. We all dress for different and complicated reasons.

I dress based on comfort, what I consider to be feminine and beautiful, and my choices are informed by my socialization as a child. When I was 6 years old I was drawing hearts with high heels and big eyelashes--that's because I learned as a child that those were indications of feminine gender in my culture.

I knew that Minnie Mouse, the female mouse, had eyeshadow, long eyelashes, high heels, and a short skirt. I knew that Betty Boop wore a form fitting red dress and lipstick. I internalized these dress elements as being part of the female gender---but I was not reacting on some kind of mating instinct, just the ingrained instinct to fit in and find my place (and others places) in my society, according to what my society suggested was appropriate for my sex.

It's interesting that you bring up societies which restrict clothing choices for women. Those women have to react to explicit pressure to dress a certain way. But women in post-industrial western societies also react to social pressure. If all women had the urge to dress in Western fashion instinctively, then wouldn't other societies across the globe have adopted the same fashion (edit--before social contact with western culture)? Women in oppressive countries aren't reacting to Western fashion in a vacuum, purely off of instinct....they wouldn't instinctively want to dress in Western styles without being exposed to Western culture.

Humans are animals, but we have giant brains and we take over a decade to mature physically and mentally. We rely very heavily on socialization, more so than any other animal, maybe.

Last edited by Zinia on 18 Jun 2012, 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I don't really read the critics, it must be it. I bet you'll fix that.

I haven't read sex at dawn. I think its main thing was group mariage in prehistory (i'm simplifying). I don't dispute what i know about what the book say.

Links: I think you just referred to evolutionary psychology.

Look. We are physically different. From when we are fetuses different hormones baith in our brains. That alone doesn't do anything? A whole chromosome is different. In a bunch of animals, females and males behave differently, thats a social construct too?

We are more animal then you would like, and we have our insticts.

the second book disputes that gender behaviour differences can be assumed to be a direct result of genetics or brain differences. you may want to read it as it is quite enlightening.

Yea, well my English isn't perfect.

I meant its out of subject.

Yes, there is. It's called a suit/tuxedo. It's also called driving a porsche. Men don't have the same sex appeal that women do. We have no equivalent of breasts to show off to get things handed to us and get out of trouble, but we're expected to dress up in a suit to impress women who want you for your money. Also, the suit does increase your likelihood of not getting in trouble, or so it seems, but I think that has more to do with who you know, and it just so happens a lot of people in suits have connections...

And before anybody comes along with "oh, well men make us wear high heels and dresses and stuff," No we don't. Out of all the men I've ever spoken with about this, maybe 1 or 2(out of at least 150), actually consider high heels "sexy." Most don't give a crap what's on your feet and think you're not too bright for hurting yourself by wearing them.

I got a newsflash for you: If the world was REALLY run by men, you girls wouldn't be allowed to vote or say anything in public. You wouldn't be so protected by divorce court. You'd probably be told how to dress, if you were allowed to dress at all. I would appreciate not seeing this kind of sexist, deluded drivel again. Men don't rule the world, and the only reason we pursue money in the first place is because you girls seem to like it so much. If we could attract a woman while living in a cardboard box, we wouldn't own homes and flashy cars.

I believe there are mental differences between men and woman, derived from a genetic and hormonal differences. At the very least, men tend to like women, and women tend to like men, and that should count for something.

Now I'm a bit confused about the extent of those differences, so I'll be grabbing hyperlexian's book when I have time and see how much do I agree with it. I do remember the chapter "The battle of the sexes" from Richard Dawkins' "The Selfish Gene", where he explained the differences in behaviour between males and females of any species as stemming from their reproductive asymmetry, and it was a sound theory so... I'll see how it goes~

That we are all different, that's done in purpose. Genetic recombination was invented for exactly that. Genetics play a big part in personality.

They are things that are wired. We aren't blank slates. Our bigger brains simply allow us to do more complicated things. We are still animals, and our insticts are important.

..... Being conformist(social pressure), is it self a wired instinct. It can be traced to a lot of animals, down to cockroaches. Giving all the credit to that instinct is exaggerated. And i'm not say it doesn't play a role, just that here its over done.

Our instincts, control our behavior, by controlling what we like, and don't like, they don't control us like bots.

Being an aspie, really means that we are wired differently. That we exist, shows how important the wired stuff is in our head.

It all boils down to interpretation of the facts. That ironically that too is wired to a large extent. Like hyperlexian said, its evolutionary psychology.

Lot of food, and easy to kill. You don't think they killed them with spears, do you? That's a cartoonish version of prehistory. Mammoths were generally driven off cliffs or into pits, and humans seem to have started hunting such large game around the same time they discovered fire. I.e. they probably just set the grass or brush on fire to herd them. For all we know, they had children doing this ... it doesn't require any size or strength at all.

Why?

Because that's how it was, when men pretty much DID run the world. You have so many more rights these days, and while there are definitely still sexists around as there are racists, it seems like some of you are completely blind to the progress that's been made, and it seems like others don't even care about progress at all and just want to stick it to some man just for being a man(or in the case of racism, stick it to whitey for being whitey). Man AND Woman, white, black, yellow, red, brown, green, purple or whatever damn color, I wish we could all just get along and treat each other with some sort of dignity and respect, but far too often people are just worried about what they can get out of something.

But anyway, I don't know why we're always getting blamed for all that. There are definitely members of the female gender who just LOVE using sexuality to get what they want(and they're just as critical of themselves and each other), so it can't be ALL men's fault. That's all I was really trying to say with my original comment.

The question was broader. I was wondering what is it about patriarchal societies that they feel the need to limit the rights of women to assert their power?

One could argue that the world is still ruled by men, because money really affects rulership, and the vast majority of all the money and wealth in the world still belongs to men.

Virginia Woolf wrote a little bit about your question in "A Room of One's Own."

She suggested that SOME men, insecure men, need other people to hold a mirror up to them in order to make them feel bigger.

These men need to look down on others, not just women, but also people of color or different sexual orientation, so that they can feel like they are valuable. This is because they depend on comparison to others for their own sense of self-value, and they deny that they have the qualities of others who they look down upon within themselves.

She suggested that once these men learn to embrace the other in themselves, and to accept that others are just as valuable as them, then they will become fully actualized people. At least that is my interpretation of her writing.

You know . . . I have no idea. I recently needed to undergo a female exam. That was extremely embarrassing! It was my first time (at the age of 29, i know neglectful of me) and I almost died of embarrassment. Cried afterwards waiting to get picked up from the hospital. I cannot IMAGINE why anyone would dress that way or want . .. well that kind of attention!

That you IdahoRose!! ! Some of the other members made me feel like a convict for expressing my opinion. Too much make-up is one thing but half dressed is another.