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Bluebird04
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02 May 2017, 6:03 am

I am a psychologist who works with women on the spectrum. Many women I work with identify with the idea that women with ASD are able to mask or camouflage their difficulties by studying books, TV, and magazines; imitating other socially successful peers or family members; unconsciously mimicking others; or adopting a certain persona. At the same time other women I work with don’t identify with this at all.

I was curious what others experiences were? Is imitation or mimicry something you used to cope and do you think it made gaining a diagnosis/getting help more difficult?

Also, I was curious as whether women on the spectrum think this is area that should be researched more?



traven
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02 May 2017, 6:25 am

Oh, a new box, this one's becoming quite a fashion lately, but no, not as a definition of asd, imo
It might be that it depends on nurture and/or nature, just like in 'normal' persons



Spiritfire
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08 May 2017, 9:01 am

I think it makes it harder to b recognised for who u truly are when we use masking to cope. I'm 38 and only just been diagnosed by my doctor. Im currently seeing a psychologist and waiting for her diagnoses but I'm scared she won't b able to c past my masks, even thou I'm being as honest as I can.



Copelandia
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08 May 2017, 12:21 pm

I totally do this.

Although since I've recently 'come out' as having AS to a select few people, I've bothered less to try and censor my own behavior quite so much.

My words and my tone of voice I still moderate... but generally caring less as its easier.



hurtloam
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08 May 2017, 1:53 pm

No I've never been good at masking. I was raised with good manners and I'm naturaly quiet and studious, so I wasn't noticed by teachers. I seemed to be ok and getting along fine.

It was more in interpersonal relationships that I had issues with and still do.

School was easy because instructions were clear. Answer these questions. Do this assignment. But I find working life more difficult. I can't work with other women. I really don't enjoy female banter and I have no desire to mimic it just to appear to fit in. I would be miserable.

Instead I work in a male dominated field. Working life is still difficult for me though because instructions are not specific and I have to use my initiative a lot and I'm always second guessing myself and therefore slow at what I do.



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08 May 2017, 2:04 pm

I've never been able to do that, but then never really was interested in imitating other people for the sake of being normal so never really gave it a full effort either.


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12 May 2017, 8:38 pm

I thought I was good at masking, but since I've reframed some confusing past experiences with the ASD perspective I realised that masking only worked superficially with people who didn't know me.
I read a comment recently where a woman on the spectrum described her belief as a child that she must have been absent on the day the manual was handed out to her classmates.
I had a similar suspicion and observed my classmates until I found what I believed were the common patterns in the reasons for their social successes, teenager magazines were another staple source of info.
I didn't actively camouflage so much as I just wanted to fit in.



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13 May 2017, 12:10 am

I can mask and mimic like a Boss but the older I get the less I can be bothered because it's exhausting. I had an usual childhood. My Mother sent me to a very posh private school for young ladies and they were not so much interested in academic success as creating perfect society wives. We had classes in elocution, deportment, make-up, which cutlery went with different courses and how to host dinners because those things are sooo important darling!
Because of this intensive social training I can go out and be fabulous and sparkle when I have to but it's all superficial. It's not me, just a fascade.


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renaeden
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13 May 2017, 6:38 am

My focus was mainly on other girls' clothes. As soon as I was able to buy my own clothes at age 15 (government money), I began to fit in more. I was more "cool". It was such a relief.



puzzledoll
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15 May 2017, 1:46 pm

hurtloam wrote:
... I was raised with good manners and I'm naturaly quiet and studious...

School was easy because instructions were clear. Answer these questions. Do this assignment. But I find working life more difficult. I can't work with other women. I really don't enjoy female banter and I have no desire to mimic it just to appear to fit in. I would be miserable....


This is me in a nutshell! I was always friends with boys, but definitely not a tomboy as I wasn't nearly graceful enough to do decently at sports. I still have a lot of trouble getting along with women. The banter is generally more than I can keep up with and the oneupmanship is horrid!

I wasn't diagnosed till I was 40 though and most people wouldn't guess, although I'm odd, I definitely learned to mask. My masking wasn't so much a "popular girls do this so I will" as a "This is a basic social situation. In this basic social situation this is what humans say. That is then followed with some version of this interchange." etc... I tend to rely very heavily on prompt based scripts in my head. No one actively taught me to do this the way I'm teaching my boys, beyond the "say please and thank you and excuse me" bit. I somehow picked it up on my own through observation, but I do remember it being a process.

I remember clearly when I learned that it is not ok to say what you think and feel even if it's true, if the subject is obvious and generally unpleasant. I was in middle school and was staying at a hotel with classmates and chaperones and said the room was awful and listed why. Everyone else was not stating those things and acting like everything was ok. They were quite annoyed at me mentioning it all. I didn't say it out of upset just listing observations, but it taught me that if things are unpleasant and no one in mentioning it that I probably should avoid doing so as well. That is now in my list of prompts.

As for more research, yes! I definitely think there should be more research into all aspects of women on the spectrum. I wasn't diagnosed till 40 and that was with me actively asking a professional. I have had other people (women, I might add, the men generally considered the idea) shoot down the idea I might be on the spectrum, including a friend who is a doctor and a mother to spectrum kids, because women aren't diagnosed as much and my scripting promts allow me to camoflauge well enough most of the time. Both of the women mentioned saw my meltdowns, but wrote them off as "emotional woman" or "tantrums" or "based on other mental issues." We totally slip through the cracks.



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16 May 2017, 10:44 pm

I have to wonder just how interested this alleged psychologist is in this. One post then over two weeks without a further comment. Personally I think it's quite rude. Ask people to reveal information about themselves and make no effort to acknowledge a single response and NT's always say people on the spectrum lack social skills :?


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Bluebird04
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19 May 2017, 1:15 am

Hi Everyone!

Thank you all so much for your responses! There is so much focus on 'camouflaging' in research at the moment but every person is so unique and some people really identify with it and others don't. I also wonder if this 'camouflaging' is something that people do regardless of gender or ASD. I wonder if I asked NT women I may even get the same range of experiences- some women have worked hard to adopt a persona to fit in whilst others feel they can only be them!

Also, thank you bunnyb for letting me know that not responding to others' posts is rude. I have been eagerly reading everyone's responses but being a rather introverted person my natural instinct was to just read not reply. I can now see that was indeed very rude and should have realised that from reading other threads! Your right NT people can definitely lack social skills and graces!

Thanks again everyone for taking the time to share your experiences.



esoterica181
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20 May 2017, 11:53 am

I believe both women and men are conditioned to suppress their feelings because they are not taken seriously, derided, or misunderstood. I think it's a symptom of an overall lack of emotional intelligence. Masking seems like a way of coping with the overall devaluation of feelings. It doesn't seem like an organic process to me but rather a response to the way society lacks understanding.
I don't know what it's like for people with A.S.D. , but I know that in very special circumstances, I can take my mask off.
If I were to research this behavior, I would ask people when they learned to mask their feelings? What is the age of onset? Is it different for everyone and did they make a conscious decision to do it?



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25 May 2017, 6:41 am

I think generally masking and mimicry is not limited to gender or ASD because to an extent it's how humans learn. You don't instinctively known how to speak a language or brush your teeth.

But I also believe it's more extreme in people with ASD because of the noticable differences. For me, I have learned to imitate others so well that my own family refuses to believe I'm on the spectrum without an official diagnosis (and I'm doubtful even then.) They know this 'other person' that I portray so well that who I really am is a stranger to them. I feel like I should win a Tony Award. So when I am being myself, my behavior is odd, rude, and innappropriate.

The difference, I feel is in the motivation for mimicry. Most do it to fit in or seem more normal to be accepted. But I think NTs might do it just for that reason-because they want to fit in and be like other people-whereas I do it because I don't understand how to behave and speak in a socially acceptable manner, and I never will.

I don't want to be like other people. I pass as normal because society told me I have to. But it's getting annoying to put forth the effort to be someone I'm not, so I don't bother nearly as much as I used to (before I understood that I was even doing this).



traven
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25 May 2017, 7:48 am

Back to this then, i didn't learn that, firstly because i was adult-focused, or a little professor- little person, socialising shut me up and a dental brace also, my mother called me 'miss stork' <a puppet of a tv-program for kids, who's a bossy teacher.
Getting to meet peers was a big disappointment, loud barely comprehensable snotty poopsmearing lot, i never dared using toilets again during school-days, and also i feared having to touch their skin.
But i learned to keep a very low profile, certainly never do your best, not doing your best was too good already, never say anything, don't have any opinion or critic ever (well that went way out of hand later, not knowing at all if and where you can have any limits for others' behaviour or if that's allowed and how to expres that)
I didn't much participate in playgroundplay, the hard way to learn to stand out alone, in playtime, how could you possibly cover that up?

I didn't have much of a good opinion on my mother when i was around 10yo, later i tried to bridge that but she didn't really cared much, so yeah rolemodels, sigh!



Bluebird04
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26 May 2017, 12:59 am

I agree. I don't think mimicking and imitation or masking and camouflaging are unique to ASD or ASD women. Perhaps, the problem is that NT's using mimicking and imitation as way to learn social skills and are able to do this fairly easily. Then, once comfortable they stop mimicking and imitation. But people with ASD don't learn social skills easily as NTs through mimicking and imitation. So whilst some ASD women can appear socially adept through mimicking and imitation they still have the underlying skills difficulties. And the mimicking and imitation hides the underlying difficulties so these are in turn not identified or catered for. Its a real catch 22. Not to mention the effort associated with constant imitation.