Sexism against guys
"hey doll...nice cans!"
or something like that.
What about attractive females who dress sexy intentionally to make single guys jealous? Or post semi-nude
glamour shots on the internet while stating that they're not available? You know, the whole "you want me but you cant have me"
ploy.
That's legitimate behavior. The fact that it's not classy doesn't justify abuse; your libido is your own responsibility, no one else's.
a) when men are harassing women, there's a much stronger undercurrent of potential force and/or other physical risk.
b) this certainly doesn't only happen to women who are dressed "provocatively."
consider. . .
c) when it does bother men that they are oogled, groped, or whatever, there are strong cultural forces in play that stop them from admitting that it bothers them; it's not "manly" to be uncomfortable with sexual advance, unless, of course, the woman is "ugly". We certainly need to work on changing this too.
"hey doll...nice cans!"
or something like that.
What about attractive females who dress sexy intentionally to make single guys jealous? Or post semi-nude
glamour shots on the internet while stating that they're not available? You know, the whole "you want me but you cant have me"
ploy.
That's legitimate behavior. The fact that it's not classy doesn't justify abuse; your libido is your own responsibility, no one else's.
a) when men are harassing women, there's a much stronger undercurrent of potential force and/or other physical risk.
b) this certainly doesn't only happen to women who are dressed "provocatively."
consider. . .
c) when it does bother men that they are oogled, groped, or whatever, there are strong cultural forces in play that stop them from admitting that it bothers them; it's not "manly" to be uncomfortable with sexual advance, unless, of course, the woman is "ugly". We certainly need to work on changing this too.
First of all, I completely agree that NO ONE has the right to touch someone elses body without that someone's permission.
But I find your response to be outrageous. I have the RIGHT to put my eyes wherever I damn well feel like! You CANNOT dictate to me not to stare at someone I find sexually attractive. If it makes her uncomfortable thats HER problem: her feelings are HER'S to deal with just like my feelings about her clothing are my problem.You can control how you dress but you cannot control how other people are going to react to it! Dressing a certain way WILL result in unwanted attention; if you dont like it thats tough sh1t! Life isnt fair, DEAL WITH IT.
There's a difference between noticing and staring. Personally I'm uncomfortable with being stared at, regardless of whether there's a sexualized component to it or not. It makes me wonder if I'm being terribly gauche and if I'm about to be made fun of (it does happen). If there's a sexualized component it reminds me of being sexually abused when I was younger.
Basically, when you stare at someone without regard to how that person might feel about it (and different people feel different ways, regardless of whether they're male or female), you're dehumanizing them. When you look, but take into account they might not be ok with it, and look away if it turns out they're not ok, you're being considerate.
Please be considerate. Too much staring can drive people away. And sometimes that's what the staring is for.
***
I've read that men don't stare at other men unless they're trying to provoke a fight. True? If so, how would staring at women be any different?
Basically, when you stare at someone without regard to how that person might feel about it (and different people feel different ways, regardless of whether they're male or female), you're dehumanizing them. When you look, but take into account they might not be ok with it, and look away if it turns out they're not ok, you're being considerate.
Please be considerate. Too much staring can drive people away. And sometimes that's what the staring is for.
***
I've read that men don't stare at other men unless they're trying to provoke a fight. True? If so, how would staring at women be any different?
Ive actually had women stare at me with nasty looks of disapproval on their faces
"hey doll...nice cans!"
or something like that.
What about attractive females who dress sexy intentionally to make single guys jealous? Or post semi-nude
glamour shots on the internet while stating that they're not available? You know, the whole "you want me but you cant have me"
ploy.
That's legitimate behavior. The fact that it's not classy doesn't justify abuse; your libido is your own responsibility, no one else's.
a) when men are harassing women, there's a much stronger undercurrent of potential force and/or other physical risk.
b) this certainly doesn't only happen to women who are dressed "provocatively."
consider. . .
c) when it does bother men that they are oogled, groped, or whatever, there are strong cultural forces in play that stop them from admitting that it bothers them; it's not "manly" to be uncomfortable with sexual advance, unless, of course, the woman is "ugly". We certainly need to work on changing this too.
First of all, I completely agree that NO ONE has the right to touch someone elses body without that someone's permission.
But I find your response to be outrageous. I have the RIGHT to put my eyes wherever I damn well feel like! You CANNOT dictate to me not to stare at someone I find sexually attractive. If it makes her uncomfortable thats HER problem: her feelings are HER'S to deal with just like my feelings about her clothing are my problem.You can control how you dress but you cannot control how other people are going to react to it! Dressing a certain way WILL result in unwanted attention; if you dont like it thats tough sh1t! Life isnt fair, DEAL WITH IT.
I think both of you have points, no need to be so bloody angry about it..
LOL, I agree, staring is very rude regardless of why. I personally am more offended when someone gives me look that implies "what the f**k are you?" as opposed to a look from a guy. I don't really see how guys looking is really a negative thing unless the guy does it to make her feel uncomfortable on purpose. Looks I get to make me feel uncomfortable on purpose really pis me off, but 99% of the time it's nothing to do with sex or sexism, it's just arrogant jerks male and female.
QFT.
As for simply looking at attractive women that dress provocatively - surely what else can you expect if you do dress provocatively? It's like going to a singles bar and getting angry that guys are hitting on you, or going to a gay bar and complaining it's full of gay people, or going to a gym and complaining people expect you to exercise - it's the natural, logical consequence of your own choices (unless the guy deliberately does it to make you uncomfortable). Lewd remarks and obviously groping are different, but looking?
_________________
I am the steppenwolf that never learned to dance. (Sedaka)
El hombre es una bestia famélica, envidiosa e insaciable. (Francisco Tario)
I'm male by the way (yes, I know my avatar is misleading).
to be honest remarks are kinda justified also. I can't really think of any reason women wear clothing like that unless they want the attention. Looking nice isn't all about revealing.
Also I don't honestly think a lot of guys are doing it to be insulting, some might think they're complimenting you by whistling. Its when they get really sexist about it - then it's wrong..
http://www.girlslearndifferently.com/classroombias.html
http://www.unicef.org/teachers/learner/gender.htm
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~eandersn ... html#SSK91
quote:
Although students perceive that teachers compliment, pay more attention to, and call on girls more often than boys, objective measures of teacher interaction, reported in numerous studies, reveal that teachers tend to favor boys on these criteria (Sadker, Sadker, and Klein 1991, 294–304).
Haliphron, if you don't like being stared at, why do you think it's ok to stare at other people?
Furthermore, why do you think that it's ok to physically intimidate someone who's smaller than you in order to alter their behavior? (P.S. she knows that if you do "slap her around," she could have you arrested for assault and battery and stick your ass in jail for years).
To the posters above: why do you assume, when you see a woman dressed nicely, that she wants attention from you? She may be on her way to a date with her boyfriend. She may have a recital after class. She may be dressed nicely for any one of a million other reasons than to get your attention.
I think the point he was trying to get at (correct me if i'm wrong) is that it's a lot nastier to stare at someone for those reasons. Comes across to me as someone who has been given that demented stare from people one too many times and he's angry about it. (To be honest, i am too, and it hits a nerve with me. I've been looked at like that by people all my life).
Also I don't honestly think a lot of guys are doing it to be insulting, some might think they're complimenting you by whistling. Its when they get really sexist about it - then it's wrong..
I totally agree. I guess I did get a little hot under they collar about it but that was really just a lot of big talk("slapping people around"..). BTW LKL, I do realize that slapping someone around is assault and battery and I honestly would never physically attack a total stranger just because they looked at me the wrong way. Since starring, particularly with a dirty look IS confrontational I dont think its unreasonable for me to walk up to them and demand to know why they're doing it. I certainly wouldnt stare at some big hulking guy unless I was prepared to deal with him confronting me.
Two points, though:
first, you are assuming that it's easy to tell the difference between a man staring because he wants a confrontation, and a man staring because he's attracted.
second, even if the subject can tell the difference, you're assuming that no threat is implied by a man who is staring due to attraction. A stare due to attraction implies that the man cannot keep his mind off of the subject, that he is willing to interrupt his normal business in order to stare at the subject. That, in fact, he is out of his own control. If he stares for a few seconds and then gets a grip on himself, that's one thing; if he keeps on staring, or keeps on looking back, that's a threat. A man who is not controlling himself, combined with sexual attraction towards a specific woman, is a legitimate threat.
first, you are assuming that it's easy to tell the difference between a man staring because he wants a confrontation, and a man staring because he's attracted.
second, even if the subject can tell the difference, you're assuming that no threat is implied by a man who is staring due to attraction. A stare due to attraction implies that the man cannot keep his mind off of the subject, that he is willing to interrupt his normal business in order to stare at the subject. That, in fact, he is out of his own control. If he stares for a few seconds and then gets a grip on himself, that's one thing; if he keeps on staring, or keeps on looking back, that's a threat. A man who is not controlling himself, combined with sexual attraction towards a specific woman, is a legitimate threat.
So if he chooses to give in to his impusle to stare, then he is not in control of himself? That doesnt quite add up.
Its one thing to just stare and do nothing, but if such a man starts to follow the woman in question and/or approaches her and tries to touch her than he IS a legitimate threat.
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