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Bluntness and honesty vs. politeness and white lies

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Greentea
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17 Jun 2009, 11:12 am

lau wrote:
Please do not misquote people.


Please do not call my personal inferences, quotes or misquotes.


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Greentea
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17 Jun 2009, 11:17 am

Janissy, that's another example of unsolicited and untimely criticism, not of honesty.


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Kaleido
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17 Jun 2009, 11:31 am

I have had to learn to be tactful which isn't the same as lying or dishonesty, its a way of avoiding telling a truth that would be inconvenient at that time.

My poor daughter has often been on the end of my honesty and not so long ago turned around to me and told me that some things I say are hurtful.

Aspies don't have much of an excuse to be rude since we may not be so tactful, but most of us are intelligent and it only needs for us to take time to respond and think about what we are saying before we wade in with our version of honesty.

The best thing an NT can do for us is to tell us very nicely that maybe we could have considered our response more carefully. I see good examples of that on this board, thank you NTs of the board :D



pbcoll
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17 Jun 2009, 3:57 pm

Kaleido wrote:
Aspies don't have much of an excuse to be rude since we may not be so tactful, but most of us are intelligent and it only needs for us to take time to respond and think about what we are saying before we wade in with our version of honesty.


Depends, sometimes you have to think on your feet and can't go away to quietly think over how your response may come across, and often figuring that out is a matter of intuition rather than intelligence.

Ironically enough probably the rudest person I know is NT.

Greentea wrote:
pbcoll wrote:
telenovelas (taranovelas? tele no-verlas?)


:lmao: I didn't know those!

But I used to like telenovelas very much, especially when they had my lifelong favorite Argentinian actors.


Never liked telenovelas, though I've been known to watch something I would normally have no interest in because a girl on it catches my attention - don't know if your motivation was similar.

Greentea wrote:
Talk about NTs not having obsessions! Just see the addiction to telenovelas...


And football - 'it's not a matter of life or death, it's a lot more important than that.'

What country are you from, if you don't mind my asking? I'm Mexican, specifically chilango.


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Kaleido
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17 Jun 2009, 4:02 pm

pbcoll wrote:
Kaleido wrote:
Aspies don't have much of an excuse to be rude since we may not be so tactful, but most of us are intelligent and it only needs for us to take time to respond and think about what we are saying before we wade in with our version of honesty.


Depends, sometimes you have to think on your feet and can't go away to quietly think over how your response may come across, and often figuring that out is a matter of intuition rather than intelligence.


I know, thats how I make my mistakes mostly *winces* but I still try hard to think when I have time.



Who_Am_I
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17 Jun 2009, 5:49 pm

Janissy wrote:
CleverKitten wrote:
Honesty does not have to be rude!

If a woman asks, "Does this dress look good on me?"
You don't have to say, "It looks absolutely hideous and your choice of fashion is horrible!"
You could, instead, say, "Hmm, the dress does not accentuate your best features. Perhaps you should try on a different style."

Now, both examples are honest. The first example is 'mean' honesty. The second example is 'tactful' honesty. Please note that the second example is not a white lie, but instead it is a more polite way to tell the truth.

A white lie would be, "That dress looks good on you."
Complete dishonesty.


Even here, it's situational. Whether you should use tactful honesty or the dishonest white lie depends on whether she has the option to pick another dress at that time and how much she needs to feel she looks good in that dress at that time. (And I realize that figuring THAT out is something bound to drive AS people bananas.)

When to use the tactful honesty:
You are shopping together- stop her from buying it.

You are getting dressed for an event together-your tactful honesty can get her to change into something else.

You are out together. She's already in the dress with no option to change but looking her absolute best isn't that critical. Maybe you are just getting lunch together. Your tactful honesty could get her to retire the dress from her wardrobe at a later point.

When to use the white lie even though it is completely dishonest:

You are somewhere together where she has no option to change yet it is critical that she feels like she looks good. Perhaps she's just about to give a presentation in front of a bunch of people or go up on stage to perform. If she asks you how her dress looks at that moment, she needs to hear that it looks great regardless of whether it does or not. She has no option to change it and being told that it looks great (even dishonestly) frees her mind from the worry that she looks like crap and allows her to concentrate on her presentation or performance in blissful ignorance that she could have looked better. The (true) information that it was a bad clothing choice would have stuck in her head at a critical time and hampered her presentation or performance.

That is an example from my own life. I had no idea ththe people saw a good presentation from a woman in an ugly dress. Had I been tactfully told, they would have seen a bad presentation from a woman in an ugly dress. Same dress in either scenario. The only thing that would change would bat the dress I'd chosen to give a presentation in was a color choice that looked weird with my skin and I looked pale and unhealthy. (And it was a new dress too! One I'd bought special for the presentation. Damn those fluorescent lights in dressing rooms.) I didn't realize this till I saw photos. Had I been tactfully told this right before the presentation it wouldn't have helped because I couldn't change at that point and it would have stuck in my head and I would have been thinking "I look like crap!" which would have distracted me from giving my best presentation. So e the quality of the presentation.


A way to deal with the latter situation without being dishonest is to say something like "You look fine", which literally means that the person you're talking to looks fine, and you haven't mentioned anything about what they're wearing. Most people will take it as "that outfit looks fine on you"; and you don't need to correct them.


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sinsboldly
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17 Jun 2009, 6:56 pm

Greentea wrote:
lau wrote:
Please do not misquote people.


Please do not call my personal inferences, quotes or misquotes.


if you quote, you must quote honestly.
If you infer, be clear your are inferring.

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Barbarossa
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17 Jun 2009, 6:58 pm

sinsboldly wrote:
I'd like Barbarossa to be my toyboy :heart:

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Wow, thanks sinsboldy!



sinsboldly
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17 Jun 2009, 7:14 pm

Barbarossa wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
I'd like Barbarossa to be my toyboy :heart:

Merle
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Wow, thanks sinsboldy!


oh, honey, I am flattered. . .
but my heart is saved for someone who plays by the rules. :wink:

Merle

/Barbarossa has displayed how to misquote someone in a PM. I did not write the quote, but he has constructed it as if I had. That is definately against the rules of WP.

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Maggiedoll
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17 Jun 2009, 7:18 pm

Who_Am_I wrote:
Janissy wrote:
That is an example from my own life. I had no idea ththe people saw a good presentation from a woman in an ugly dress. Had I been tactfully told, they would have seen a bad presentation from a woman in an ugly dress. Same dress in either scenario. The only thing that would change would bat the dress I'd chosen to give a presentation in was a color choice that looked weird with my skin and I looked pale and unhealthy. (And it was a new dress too! One I'd bought special for the presentation. Damn those fluorescent lights in dressing rooms.) I didn't realize this till I saw photos. Had I been tactfully told this right before the presentation it wouldn't have helped because I couldn't change at that point and it would have stuck in my head and I would have been thinking "I look like crap!" which would have distracted me from giving my best presentation. So e the quality of the presentation.


A way to deal with the latter situation without being dishonest is to say something like "You look fine", which literally means that the person you're talking to looks fine, and you haven't mentioned anything about what they're wearing. Most people will take it as "that outfit looks fine on you"; and you don't need to correct them.


That's a good point. That last one was also an EXTREMELY narrow situation.. It wasn't an example of a not telling someone something, but not telling them something at a particular instant at which they couldn't do anything about it. It would have been better for Janissy to know ahead of time that that wasn't a color that would look good on stage and select another, rather than find that out from pictures taken after the fact. So any time prior to the moment right before walking on stage when it's too late to do anything about it would have been a good time for someone to say "you know, that color doesn't work well with your skin tone, maybe you should try something in _______."



Greentea
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17 Jun 2009, 9:53 pm

I repeat: I didn't quote or misquote. And inferences needn't an alert.

Now calling someone "stupid or lazy" with the moderators' agreement, that's another story. I guess we can call you stupid or lazy too, since it seems perfectly fine to you and within T&C?


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sinsboldly
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17 Jun 2009, 10:19 pm

Greentea wrote:
I repeat: I didn't quote or misquote. And inferences needn't an alert.

Now calling someone "stupid or lazy" with the moderators' agreement, that's another story. I guess we can call you stupid or lazy too, since it seems perfectly fine to you and within T&C?


Since you insist on posting this in the open, so be it.

How the moderation team works with other members is none of your business, GreenTea. Just because you are not privy to how we do it or to whom does not mean we are condoning any violation of the rules.

If you are not comfortable with and resisting being moderated you might want to take a break from WP.
I am saying this as your friend.

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TheDoctor82
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17 Jun 2009, 11:14 pm

Being blunt and honest doesn't necessarily mean telling someone "you're a f*cking a**hole"; I mean, it could, but you can also be blunt and honest and be constructive.

Yeah, I realize I'm talking about the majority of emotion-prone NTs here, but regardless...

One thing I tell people is this:

"yer mentality to not say anything to keep my feelings from being hurt was pointless; reason being, once I find out the truth, I'll be even more pissed that you held back from telling me"



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18 Jun 2009, 12:21 am

Something I read about "little white lies" in a book is that they are necessity in social relationships because they serve as a lubricant in social relationships akin to oil in a car engine.


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18 Jun 2009, 1:00 am

Arkadash wrote:
Greentea wrote:
Since you've decided to come back and say more things after you said you had nothing more to say


What I wrote was, "I have nothing more to add at this time." If you're too lazy or stupid to read the last three words, it's your problem.
Well, that statement could be inferred to mean "I have nothing to add from this time forward". Making a false presumption that someone didn't read your words because they're lazy and stupid isn't exactly honest. Looks more like a petty insult to me.
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Greentea wrote:
I'm still challenging you to provide an example of honesty without aggresivenss where lying would've been preferable.


For you, it's all about challenging, isn't it?

You challenge me to prove things to you, but your mind is closed.

You were very nice to me as long as we were emailing to each other, but as soon as you posted, on this thread, my comment which you said would be useful to autistic people, you began criticizing, not only my original comment, but every comment I've made since then.

Your first question to me, in our emails, was about why you suddenly lose all your NT friends. The answer is on this thread. You become friendly with someone, and then at a certain point you vent your spleen at them, the anger you have at the misunderstanding you've suffered from NTs in the past. I don't know why you need to play this game, but I'm not surprised that no one wants to play it with you. Therefore you have no friends. But I think you'd say that's not a problem, because honesty is the most important thing. No problem.

Greentea wrote:
And please don't quote South Americans. There's a reason I left that continent 30 years ago.


Your problems with South Americans are your issue, not mine.

As Pablo Neruda would say, "Eres una persona muy poco amable. Por eso nadie te quiere." I'm confident you'll appreciate my honesty in this post.

You're insulting everyone's intelligence if you think we don't know the difference between honesty and egregious condescension. You're the one playing a game. You got your feelings hurt because people criticized your arguments and rejected your precious wisdom. :roll: