Bluntness and honesty vs. politeness and white lies

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I think this thread really illustrates the communication differences, and problems between NTs, and autistics.

Arkadash is trying to explain a situation that he thought was a good example of why being blunt at certain times can be hurtful to the recipient. A few people offered counter arguments about why they didn't agree. People broke the situation down, analyzed it, and offered up differing opinions. This is what aspies do. We analyze, debate, and question. It's not of malice, but rather because we like to understand how, what ,and why things work. What I suspect Arkadash heard was, 'You're a bad uneducated teacher.' Even though that's not what anyone actually said, or even inferred. He read between the lines when there wasn't anything to read. When people said they didn't agree with his take on the situation, he felt attacked, as if we somehow made a reference to his very being. No, the other posters didn't agree with his take on the situation, and that was all there was to it. Arkadash, feeling his ego bruised, responded in a defensive manner. That's not unusual behavior for someone who feels like they're being attacked personally. He is now in the minority, and aspies are in the majority. As misunderstood, and upset he feels at this situation, is how I feel everyday in trying to deal with NTs. This is the sort of misunderstandings we go through all the time. We mean what we say, and say what we mean. There is no hidden meanings, or agenda hiding in our words. If we mean to slight somebody, we do it outright without hiding behind a word game. The problem is when NTs look beyond our words searching for meanings that aren't there, because with NTs it usually is.

I agree with the initial statements of Arkadash and Janissy if they say that's the way the world works. If they are trying to defend this, I have no sympathy for their position. I'm not that partial to bluntness, since I know how hurtful it can be, but there are plenty of ways to be polite and sincere in the same time. And some things shouldn't really be asked - when you ask me if you look fat you know very well that you do, you just need my lie so you can keep lying to yourself. You prefer to manipulate me and make me feel uncomfortable so you won't - instead of doing something about the real problem - and that's being blunt.

Arkadash obviously came here with some expectations. He was told his insight might benefit autistic people so he expected some recognition and appreciation. Instead, he was challenged and he doesn't seem used to it. More, one of the posters was very adamant in rubbing his nose in his own mess - him saying that he would have preferred his students to get the wrong idea than to be publicly corrected by one of them. I imagine he was even more upset because he realised himself how unprofessional this was - but again, he didn't expect to be challenged so harshly - an NT wouldn't have done it.

And then Greentea reacted strongly to something she felt had happen to her all her life and I think he felt trapped - first he's told his insight is of great value, than he's being brought here just to be attacked from left and right. Calling Greantea lazy and stupid was rude and childish. Intelligent people don't respond with insults just because their position is challenged, but are able to defend it with valid arguments, at least if they want any respect.

The quote form Neruda was the real low blow - you get angry and say something like this and don't think about the damage you do - people like us live all their life with these scars, just because you feel angry and hurt and want to retaliate. Or maybe you just don't care and really want to inflict the maximum amount of pain. And you quote in the original language, assuming most people won't understand how low you just stooped. I haven't heard something so deliberately mean in a long time and for that you certainly don't deserve Greentea's friendship or our respect.

Let this thread serve as a lesson to all NTs who try to communicate with us Aspies And Auties

Trying to find hidden meaning in what we say is like trying to find meaning in a Dragonforce song. Any meaning in there will be said bluntly in the lyrics, not hidden in strange combinations.

I think there are lots of people NTs and aspies who are all for honesty until you tell them something straightforwardly and then they get upset too!

As an aspie, I tend to be quite direct and its hard for me to see that others might mean something different from what they say, but experience tells me to look for what people are not saying. I think I slightly prefer it if others are honest but not to the point of callousness or rudeness.

To give an example, a woman I hadn't seen for several years met me and said that she thought I had gotten fat, I found that rude. She could have said that I seemed to have gained weight in a different way if she really had to mention it at all, personally, I don't think she even needed to comment on my body at all.

I would rather people be blunt than give me the "silent treatment".

Honesty and rudeness are two completely separate things.

Not immediately stating a fact when it has not even been asked for is not lying.
Outright calling someone fat may sometimes be honest, but it is also rude. There is no need to say it when it was not asked for.


Now if someone does ask, "Do I look fat?", (and they do, indeed have a somewhat fuller figure than when you last met), replying, "You certainly have a more curvaceous figure," is also very honest, and less likely to be taken as offensive.

Or it could be taken as a 'sly' comment, and be even worse.