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Almandite
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12 Jul 2009, 9:48 am

Danielismyname wrote:
Definitions.

Traditionally,

HFA is "classic autism", just with an IQ over 75 (which usually equates to less severe or less symptoms and less handicap); this is closer to SPD than NLD if one is to use that as a distinction, and as a comparison to classic autism with an IQ under 75 (usually 50 to 60 and under)


That is very helpful. So would it be accurate to say that all ASC spectrum individuals have NLD, but not all have SPD, and that this is one reason why autistic phenotypes can differ so wildly?

Then I would be HFA, I guess, or something completely different, as I have significant sensory issues. Hmm. The plot thickens.



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12 Jul 2009, 10:04 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I have AS and I ignore people A LOT. In fact, I am very choosy about who I talk to. I am aloof and lack social reciprocity in a major way. It's true, I don't like talking to just anyone and am very selective. I can talk to people, however. I would describe myself as " socially stubborn and conversationally selective" and "aloof". You might describe me as "snotty" or "snobby" but it's not because I want to be...exactly. More like it's because it's who I am.
I don't buy for one minute that everyone with AS enjoys being social and talking to people. The DSM doesn't say that and I am proof it isn't always the case.

I agree with Crassus, we are all individuals and you cannot stereotype people.


Trust me, you are not as aloof as the classic autists I work with. You are using the colloquial meaning of 'aloof', and Crassus and I are using the clinical meaning. These individuals seem oblivious to your presence. They do not acknowledge you even if you sit next to them and talk to them. They aren't "stubborn" or "snooty"--it never occurs to them to talk to you.

:wink:



Almandite
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12 Jul 2009, 10:06 am

wildgrape wrote:
The term asperger's is currently used by many, including some on this board, to to distinguish higher-functioning from lower-functioning autists. I find that this demeans lower-functioning autists, and want no part of it.

Societies have a long history of dehumanizing those who are different or lower-functioning. At one time, "normal" people didn't want to associate themselves as human beings with certain people, including autists, who they perceived as deficient. Even in Western societies not so long ago, such people were put in inhuman institutions or worse. And now we find that some "Aspies" don't want to associate themselves with lower-functioning autists, because "they are very different from me".

A mentally deficient person or a severely affected autist is still a human being, and deserves to be respected as such, even if the person is different from an intelligent, athletic high achiever. Similarly, just because I function better in society than some autists is not a valid reason for me to give myself a different label in order to distance myself from them. In the same way that I will continue to insist that even those who are the most severely disabled are still human, I am pleased to associate myself with low-functioning autists. After all, we are all autists, and I will never tell anyone that I have Asperger's - a term that is perhaps even more imprecise than autistic.


I understand your point, and I think it's an important one. However, when I describe myself as an Aspie, I am doing it because there are very different behaviors between me and someone with Kranner's, and I am specifying this to paint a more accurate picture.



Sora
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12 Jul 2009, 10:25 am

Almandite wrote:
That is very helpful. So would it be accurate to say that all ASC spectrum individuals have NLD, but not all have SPD, and that this is one reason why autistic phenotypes can differ so wildly?

Then I would be HFA, I guess, or something completely different, as I have significant sensory issues. Hmm. The plot thickens.


That depends on the definition of NVLD I guess. If N(V)LD stands for weak visual/spatial besides others, then not all autistic people have it, because not all autistic people have weak visual/spatial skills.


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12 Jul 2009, 1:12 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I don't buy for one minute that everyone with AS enjoys being social and talking to people. The DSM doesn't say that and I am proof it isn't always the case.


I think, perhaps, that many people with AS want to be social until they become social. As a child, I had so little idea how to interact with people and didn't know much about social interaction, always feeling on the outside, so I wanted really badly to become social and be able to deal with people, because it was a mystery, and because it seemed to make other people so happy. Then there was awhile where I started to become more social. I studied psychology, took sociology and social psychology, went to therapy, worked really, really hard to become more social. But of course, it still didn't come naturally to me, and was just so exhausting, and made me always so nervous, always feeling so precariously balanced, and I totally crumbled. Maybe if I'd gotten "help" as a child, I would have realized earlier that I didn't really want to deal much with people.. but not having the opportunity to interact with many people besides being tormented, I felt for a long time that if I could just learn those rules of social interaction, that I'd be happy. But the rules are so delicate, just learning them doesn't really work beyond a superficial level. So I no longer have that dream that I'll suddenly be able to be good at interacting with lots of people.. I just won't, it's this effort that's just not sustainable.. so most socializing doesn't hold the appeal that it did before I'd ever socialized.
I hope that I worded that well enough for somebody to understand what I meant.



Almandite
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12 Jul 2009, 1:21 pm

Maggiedoll wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I don't buy for one minute that everyone with AS enjoys being social and talking to people. The DSM doesn't say that and I am proof it isn't always the case.


I think, perhaps, that many people with AS want to be social until they become social. As a child, I had so little idea how to interact with people and didn't know much about social interaction, always feeling on the outside, so I wanted really badly to become social and be able to deal with people, because it was a mystery, and because it seemed to make other people so happy. Then there was awhile where I started to become more social. I studied psychology, took sociology and social psychology, went to therapy, worked really, really hard to become more social. But of course, it still didn't come naturally to me, and was just so exhausting, and made me always so nervous, always feeling so precariously balanced, and I totally crumbled. Maybe if I'd gotten "help" as a child, I would have realized earlier that I didn't really want to deal much with people.. but not having the opportunity to interact with many people besides being tormented, I felt for a long time that if I could just learn those rules of social interaction, that I'd be happy. But the rules are so delicate, just learning them doesn't really work beyond a superficial level. So I no longer have that dream that I'll suddenly be able to be good at interacting with lots of people.. I just won't, it's this effort that's just not sustainable.. so most socializing doesn't hold the appeal that it did before I'd ever socialized.
I hope that I worded that well enough for somebody to understand what I meant.


I completely understand and relate. This has been my situation as well.



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12 Jul 2009, 1:54 pm

im socially aloof, i dont get any social anxiety either, i'm very content stimming, any social situation i can say i dont socialize, i jus sit there and rock, or sway, bite, headshake, spin or flap, boucne, jump, like for example last nite we met up with a group of my bfs friends, they all stand around like a bunch of cattle hehe, chatted, i wandered around bouncing, flapping, swaying, punching my chin because i love the feeling of it dont ask me why lol, and every now and then i would walk in front of them and grab their hands and make them clap or would pull on their elbow and repeat the word ello randomly over and over, and then i sat on the ground right by there feet rocking, punching my chin, humming, randomly giggling, they every now and then pat my head, or poke me to tickle me, or say whats up george because i call a lot fo ppl random names and my fav name is george lol, and thats it, we were out there for probably 3 hours. I never ever have a conversation, never talk unless a random word, jus stim, have no care in the world for socializing, i see humans as objects mostly and loove their hands, i always make them clap or bite their hands, or shake their hands or jus slap their hands haha, and if ur around me u get use to it, because other then me randomly doing that i dont ever interact. Its not that i ignore anybody either, i jus am off in my own world stimming, enjoying the lights, the wind, a good 90% of the time i usually have no thoughts going through my head either haha. idk if thats an example of classic or not, but thats what im labelled.


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LipstickKiller
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13 Jul 2009, 2:46 pm

Age 1600:

How about your boyfriend is he on the spectrum? Sorry to be nosy, but I'm so fascinated by the way you describe yourself and your world :)



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13 Jul 2009, 3:12 pm

LipstickKiller wrote:
Age 1600:

How about your boyfriend is he on the spectrum? Sorry to be nosy, but I'm so fascinated by the way you describe yourself and your world :)


haha its okay, no hes all NT haha, the only weird thing about him is that he has ocd about his car sometimes, and that hes dating an autie haha but besides that nothing out of the ordinary with him. I dont think somebody on the spectrum could date me, idk how long theyd last lol, im so hard to handle haha i love putting me down hehehe.


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ddunkin
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13 Jul 2009, 3:21 pm

I am fascinated as well! I believe that in some ways (only Dxed AS), I do see people as objects. Moving objects, that I have to dodge/avoid in the hallway/sidewalk without speaking to them.

I've come to make myself appear more normal by saying 'hi' to people in return (but nothing if they don't acknowledge me), but I could be just as comfortable looking past them as they never existed (except physically, to get around them without bumping).

On the otherhand, I am extremely (to the point it interferes with my entire life) concious of people and their actions, and how it impacts me and others. I see many things as extreme, and active disrepect for people around them (breaking driving rules, talking/ringing phones in public, not controlling children), so I believe my inability to filter out all of that makes me act a bit more normal towards people than I might otherwise perceive.



NicksQuestions
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13 Jul 2009, 3:48 pm

Maggiedoll wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I don't buy for one minute that everyone with AS enjoys being social and talking to people. The DSM doesn't say that and I am proof it isn't always the case.


I think, perhaps, that many people with AS want to be social until they become social. As a child, I had so little idea how to interact with people and didn't know much about social interaction, always feeling on the outside, so I wanted really badly to become social and be able to deal with people, because it was a mystery, and because it seemed to make other people so happy. Then there was awhile where I started to become more social. I studied psychology, took sociology and social psychology, went to therapy, worked really, really hard to become more social. But of course, it still didn't come naturally to me, and was just so exhausting, and made me always so nervous, always feeling so precariously balanced, and I totally crumbled. Maybe if I'd gotten "help" as a child, I would have realized earlier that I didn't really want to deal much with people.. but not having the opportunity to interact with many people besides being tormented, I felt for a long time that if I could just learn those rules of social interaction, that I'd be happy. But the rules are so delicate, just learning them doesn't really work beyond a superficial level. So I no longer have that dream that I'll suddenly be able to be good at interacting with lots of people.. I just won't, it's this effort that's just not sustainable.. so most socializing doesn't hold the appeal that it did before I'd ever socialized.
I hope that I worded that well enough for somebody to understand what I meant.


Interesting. I'm wanting to be more social, most people say that I'm very aloof and don't want to interact. When I tell them that I want to interact but people won't let me no matter how hard I try, they get mad at me and say it's me. They tell me that I should notice that everyone else around me is socializing, and so they insist it's me.

If I became good at socializing, I wonder if the same thing that happened to you would happen to me?



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13 Jul 2009, 5:42 pm

Almandite wrote:
I was reading in the bookstore today that, essentially, "Classic Autism is a very different condition than HFA/Asperger's, which have more in common with NonVerbal Learning Disorder".

Do you think this is true? Are there several different kinds of Autism? Should AS be considered Autism? Is it a "milder" form of Autism, or something else entirely?

I'm not sure what to think, myself.


Then I'm closer to classic autism. I'm the opposite of NLD. My cognitive strengths all lie in the areas NLD people are supposed to have deficits. However I was never aloof or non-verbal as a child. I'm aloof now but it's more a choice. I'm too introverted and don't enjoy small-talk enough to get much out of social interaction so I don't even attempt.