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NT-Bashing Foolishness: An Open Letter To The Abusers

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Janissy
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14 Oct 2009, 1:14 pm

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rdos wrote:
[


Conflict mostly arise because of a few percent of human diversity. This is the part I call "neurotypical complusions". Neurotypical compulsions are for instance, status seeking, following fashions, body ornaments for social reasons, organising things in social hierarchy, grouping people in in-group/out-group, mostly socializing with one's peer group and things like that. These are the traits that are behind most cultural phenomena, and it is also the traits that are behind conflicts and war, but they are a small percentage of human diversity.
[/quote]


I disagree. Most conflict between groups arises from competition for resources. What is behind the conflicts of war is groups competing for control of land, water, other natural resources such as oil and minerals, human labour and money through control of an economy. It's the rare war or large scale conflict that doesn't involve a conflict over who gets to control something on that list.

Many small scale conflicts and conflicts between individuals also involve competition for resources. Conflicts that are actually over resources can masquerade as conflicts over cultural differences. Racial conflict in the US is more about who gets to control labour, access to education, access to desirable real estate. On the surface it looks like fights about skin color but when you scratch the surface you see how the fights really boil down to money- who gets it and who gets shut out- who gets good jobs, who gets good places to live, who gets good schools.

There are conflicts between groups and individuals which is what will be most obvious to Aspies since that's such an overwhelming experience: being an individual in conflict with the group. So that conflict will feel most prominent: the group shuts out somebody who doesn't fit in- the conflict starts as soon as people are old enough to have a concept of group identity- sometime in elementary school. It may look like a lot of in-group/out group conflicts are just this on a somewhat larger scale, but if you look more closely you will see that they aren't really about how the minority X group doesn't mesh with the larger Y group but rather about how the X group is using resources that the Y group doesn't want to share. It's a conflict over resources.



Janissy
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14 Oct 2009, 1:24 pm

rdos wrote:
Blindspot149 wrote:
rdos wrote:

Conflict mostly arise because of a few percent of human diversity. This is the part I call "neurotypical complusions". Neurotypical compulsions are for instance, status seeking, following fashions, body ornaments for social reasons, organising things in social hierarchy, grouping people in in-group/out-group, mostly socializing with one's peer group and things like that. These are the traits that are behind most cultural phenomena, and it is also the traits that are behind conflicts and war, but they are a small percentage of human diversity.



ummm.........what :?:


Perhaps I should clarify. These traits are a small percentage of inherited diversity, but a big part of human culture. I have for instance my self no interest in fashions, I have no interest in which sports-teams are ther best, and I do not single out out-groups on all kind of levels. Therefore, I find much of culture rather uninteresting. I listen to the music I like, I wear comfortable cloths, and I don't like to socialize with strangers.


Culture isn't about sports teams, music and fashion. It's about how a group organizes itself and how the members of the group interact with each other and with those outside the group. It's about communication style, hierarchical style and acceptable interaction style. You participate whether you want to or not, unless you remove youirself from culture entirely by living away from all people.



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14 Oct 2009, 2:20 pm

AKH! Too much sciency stuff!! !

I don't look into it too much. Bashing NTs is pointless, but I tend to use the term to loosly (and easily) describe anyone who doesn't have a neurological condition or in other words, people who don't get shunned by society...


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Warsie
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14 Oct 2009, 2:55 pm

ViperaAspis wrote:
2) If you are truly bothered by what you perceive as NTs being mean, the answer is not to be mean back. That puts you on the same level. I would further say that as a group that is so picked on, you should understand what this feels like. Picking on others as soon as you get the opportunity shows nothing but your own weakness.


Malcolm X would say it's your right to defend yourself from aggression and the devils that wich to keep you down. :P
This is OUR forum, and the NTs have their forums/sites to bash us (see EncyclopediaDramatica). :P


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rdos
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14 Oct 2009, 3:06 pm

Janissy wrote:
I disagree. Most conflict between groups arises from competition for resources. What is behind the conflicts of war is groups competing for control of land, water, other natural resources such as oil and minerals, human labour and money through control of an economy. It's the rare war or large scale conflict that doesn't involve a conflict over who gets to control something on that list.


Yes, but this is closely related to status-seeking and hierarchy. People want to climb hierarchies, and they want as much resourses as they can get (which is simply status-seeking). Environmental issues or resource depletion will not stop people from continuing to their status-seeking, even if they somehow know this is not sustainable.

Janissy wrote:
There are conflicts between groups and individuals which is what will be most obvious to Aspies since that's such an overwhelming experience: being an individual in conflict with the group. So that conflict will feel most prominent: the group shuts out somebody who doesn't fit in- the conflict starts as soon as people are old enough to have a concept of group identity- sometime in elementary school. It may look like a lot of in-group/out group conflicts are just this on a somewhat larger scale, but if you look more closely you will see that they aren't really about how the minority X group doesn't mesh with the larger Y group but rather about how the X group is using resources that the Y group doesn't want to share. It's a conflict over resources.


These conflicts can happen for a variety of reasons (for instance, not knowing how to fit-into groups, not wanting to fit in). They are still the result of compulsive NT-behavior where groups adapt their own "cultural practices" (for instance cloth, sports-teams, music, movies), and shuts out those that do not agree on those norms.



Janissy
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14 Oct 2009, 4:06 pm

rdos wrote:
Janissy wrote:
I disagree. Most conflict between groups arises from competition for resources. What is behind the conflicts of war is groups competing for control of land, water, other natural resources such as oil and minerals, human labour and money through control of an economy. It's the rare war or large scale conflict that doesn't involve a conflict over who gets to control something on that list.


Yes, but this is closely related to status-seeking and hierarchy. People want to climb hierarchies, and they want as much resourses as they can get (which is simply status-seeking). Environmental issues or resource depletion will not stop people from continuing to their status-seeking, even if they somehow know this is not sustainable.

[.


I don't think resource seeking is driven by status seeking. I think it's the reverse. Status-seeking is driven by resource-seeking. Those with the highest staus get the most resources. Status is just a mechanism that puts you first in line to acquire resources. Those with the highest status have the best food, the safest, cleanest and largest places to live, the most desirable mates and so on. People don't consume resources (such as oil) for status-seeking reasons. They consume resources because resources "taste good" and make life easier. The ability to drive wherever you want, whenever you want with no thought to how much gas is still in the tank or how much it costs has driven US oil consumption. It isn't about status. It's about not having to worry ...ever...about where the next tank of gas is coming from.



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14 Oct 2009, 9:19 pm

Warsie wrote:
ViperaAspis wrote:
2) If you are truly bothered by what you perceive as NTs being mean, the answer is not to be mean back. That puts you on the same level. I would further say that as a group that is so picked on, you should understand what this feels like. Picking on others as soon as you get the opportunity shows nothing but your own weakness.


Malcolm X would say it's your right to defend yourself from aggression and the devils that wich to keep you down. :P
This is OUR forum, and the NTs have their forums/sites to bash us (see EncyclopediaDramatica). :P


Pssssst, Warsie. Yeah, this is our forum, but we don't get to bash ANYBODY here, remember? If you feel you must bash NTs then please go somewhere else to do it.

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14 Oct 2009, 9:30 pm

Warsie wrote:
ViperaAspis wrote:
2) If you are truly bothered by what you perceive as NTs being mean, the answer is not to be mean back. That puts you on the same level. I would further say that as a group that is so picked on, you should understand what this feels like. Picking on others as soon as you get the opportunity shows nothing but your own weakness.


Malcolm X would say it's your right to defend yourself from aggression and the devils that wich to keep you down. :P
This is OUR forum, and the NTs have their forums/sites to bash us (see EncyclopediaDramatica). :P


Every single NT is a devil who is keeping you down? Your life must suck. :P
(Oh, and ED bashes everyone. Which you know.)


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14 Oct 2009, 9:55 pm

rdos wrote:
DenvrDave wrote:
I whole-heartedly agree with the poster who wrote: "There's no 'we' or 'them', just us. Let all human beings get along, we are all one in this cosmic universe = )" If we continue to emphasize our differences, then we will be divided. It makes far more sense to me to focus on our similarities, because we are more similar than different. As Ben Franklin said, "We must all hang together or, surely, we will all hang separately."

It is a nice idea, but it unfortunately does not stand up to further scrutiny.

Much the way your theory that Aspies are a different species holds up to further scrutiny, I suppose?


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14 Oct 2009, 10:11 pm

fiddlerpianist wrote:
rdos wrote:
DenvrDave wrote:
I whole-heartedly agree with the poster who wrote: "There's no 'we' or 'them', just us. Let all human beings get along, we are all one in this cosmic universe = )" If we continue to emphasize our differences, then we will be divided. It makes far more sense to me to focus on our similarities, because we are more similar than different. As Ben Franklin said, "We must all hang together or, surely, we will all hang separately."

It is a nice idea, but it unfortunately does not stand up to further scrutiny.

Much the way your theory that Aspies are a different species holds up to further scrutiny, I suppose?


Wait, what? Whose "theory" is that? I hate to break it to you (whoever you are :P), but the fact that I exist falsifies your theory (after all, my mom is NT. Different species are incapable of having fertile offspring.).


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14 Oct 2009, 11:50 pm

rdos wrote:
Not at all. NTs exist as a group because factor-analysis says so.


I think you have used the term "factor analysis" in an attempt to add scientific authority to your opinion. I respect your opinion on this topic, but please don't cloak your opinion in scientific terms unless you are prepared to back it up with a peer-reviewed publication.

rdos wrote:
DenvrDave wrote:
I whole-heartedly agree with the poster who wrote: "There's no 'we' or 'them', just us. Let all human beings get along, we are all one in this cosmic universe = )" If we continue to emphasize our differences, then we will be divided. It makes far more sense to me to focus on our similarities, because we are more similar than different. As Ben Franklin said, "We must all hang together or, surely, we will all hang separately."


It is a nice idea, but it unfortunately does not stand up to further scrutiny.


I respectfully disagree: The idea does stand up to further scrutiny.



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15 Oct 2009, 12:30 am

As others have said; Hear, hear!


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Blindspot149
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15 Oct 2009, 1:20 am

rdos wrote:
DenvrDave wrote:
I whole-heartedly agree with the poster who wrote: "There's no 'we' or 'them', just us. Let all human beings get along, we are all one in this cosmic universe = )" If we continue to emphasize our differences, then we will be divided. It makes far more sense to me to focus on our similarities, because we are more similar than different. As Ben Franklin said, "We must all hang together or, surely, we will all hang separately."


rdos wrote:
It is a nice idea, but it unfortunately does not stand up to further scrutiny.



What scrutiny and whose scrutiny :?: :?: