Should abnormal eye contact be given more weight in dx?

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alexptrans
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22 Nov 2010, 2:47 am

Let's ignore for a moment the possible changes in AS diagnosis in DSM-V.
Right now, the DSM-IV criteria for AS state the following:

A.Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:

(1) marked impairment in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body postures, and gestures to regulate social interaction
(2) failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
(3) a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people (e.g., by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
(4) lack of social or emotional reciprocity


So eye contact impairment is not even a required criterion, if a person has two other characteristics. Does anyone here think that eye contact impairment should be given more weight than it currently has?



Chronos
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22 Nov 2010, 3:05 am

alexptrans wrote:
Let's ignore for a moment the possible changes in AS diagnosis in DSM-V.
Right now, the DSM-IV criteria for AS state the following:

A.Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:

(1) marked impairment in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body postures, and gestures to regulate social interaction
(2) failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
(3) a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people (e.g., by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
(4) lack of social or emotional reciprocity


So eye contact impairment is not even a required criterion, if a person has two other characteristics. Does anyone here think that eye contact impairment should be given more weight than it currently has?


No I do not. For one, one can desensitize one's self to eye contact. I did this to myself by trusting that I was expected to make eye contact, and staring at photos of people online.

I can maintain eye contact very well in some situations. The point is, I would not have known to do this unless someone had told me (repeatedly in my case) that I should look people in the eyes when conversing with them, and it is something I used to have great difficulty with.

Further, some individuals with classic autism make eye contact just fine.



buryuntime
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22 Nov 2010, 3:07 am

I never understood the 3rd criterion. I thought talking about your interests was like classic aspie.

Anyway, I think the criteria in the eye contact regard is okay. I think the key thing is that they are lacking use of nonverbal communication in multiple areas... it shouldn't matter much how.



Chronos
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22 Nov 2010, 3:21 am

buryuntime wrote:
I never understood the 3rd criterion. I thought talking about your interests was like classic aspie.

Anyway, I think the criteria in the eye contact regard is okay. I think the key thing is that they are lacking use of nonverbal communication in multiple areas... it shouldn't matter much how.


Actually, when I was younger, I did not spontaneously seek to share my enjoyment and interests with others. If my parents knew of an interest or something I liked, it was because I asked for something related to it, or someone asked me what I liked, and I didn't ask for things very often. It was really only in my early 20's after I apparently did not share in a timely manner, something others considered pertinent information (how to relieve itching from mosquito bites), and they became quite angry with me, that I started sharing my knowledge and interests more, and occasionally this would cause my mother or another family member to tell me they didn't want to hear more about tornadoes, or some random fact, and to shoe me out of the room.



jojobean
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22 Nov 2010, 3:24 am

I dont get the 3rd one either. I make eye contact irregularly...most of the time, I look at people's mouths when they are talking. I glance at their eyes but usually dont have any idea how long to make eye contact, so I just dont. But when I talk to someone, I either make eye contact or I look somewhere else on their face. Sometimes, I look past them. Sometimes I look down and dont really look up (usually with strangers).

But some folks on here make on eye contact fine. The critera is always changing. I dont get that. I have heard some talk about eliminating aspergers from the critera and just labeling it as high functioning autism.


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Titangeek
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22 Nov 2010, 11:09 pm

i do rather well with eye contact, and i have bin told several times (by my cousin's/nephew's) to shut up and quit talking about (whatever my special interest was at the time, or computers).


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Jediscraps
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22 Nov 2010, 11:40 pm

I've gone to a couple autistic spectrum meetings and everyone made excellent eye contact except for me. And from reading on here, I didn't think it would be like that.
I can make eye contact but if I'm going to be saying anything of importance or you're asking me questions, I usually look down to focus.



silver22
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23 Nov 2010, 2:58 am

Any criteria has to be pretty vague when dealing with something as complex as AS.

I find that around people I'm confortable with, I have pretty good eye contact, but around strangers I have real trouble. It is even worse when I am in the presence of someone who has a position of power over me, ie. a doctor, or during a job interview. Then I become really self conscious about my eye contact, and have to keep reminding myself to look.



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23 Nov 2010, 3:47 am

Most older Aspies I believe have become quite good at faking eye contact as a sort of social survival strategy to keep from being accused of being crazy. I have also have been accused of being "shifty looking" for lack of eye contact when I was younger but hardly anyone notices my eye contact now that I am in my 40's.


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Robdemanc
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23 Nov 2010, 4:30 am

With me the eye contact problem comes and goes. It depends how stressed I am. Looking at someones eyes is not that bad. I don't think it is the most difficult thing to do. And often it depends on the person you interact with.



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23 Nov 2010, 4:58 am

Its very hard for me. But I can still do it if I have to. The rest of the time I look stoned or something.
My flat mate yelled at me once "LOOK INTO MY EYES" screw her.



anbuend
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27 Nov 2010, 12:33 am

No it should not be given more weight. That would be like singling out just one particular way that nonverbal communication can be different for just some autistic people, and then putting it in the spotlight like it was different from all other aspects and more important. There's already too much emphasis on stereotypes and trivial things like that as it is. Well, I don't want to call it trivial. But elevating single details of specific people's variant of autism, to the point of making it sound absolutely necessary. That happens too much already, and some doctors even do it despite the fact that it isn't like that already. There are doctors who won't diagnose autism if a kid makes eye contact even if they have every single other autistic trait, for instance. That's just wrong. We don't need to give people that clueless more ammunition for their clueless behavior.


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27 Nov 2010, 12:36 am

anbuend wrote:
No it should not be given more weight. That would be like singling out just one particular way that nonverbal communication can be different for just some autistic people, and then putting it in the spotlight like it was different from all other aspects and more important. There's already too much emphasis on stereotypes and trivial things like that as it is. Well, I don't want to call it trivial. But elevating single details of specific people's variant of autism, to the point of making it sound absolutely necessary. That happens too much already, and some doctors even do it despite the fact that it isn't like that already. There are doctors who won't diagnose autism if a kid makes eye contact even if they have every single other autistic trait, for instance. That's just wrong. We don't need to give people that clueless more ammunition for their clueless behavior.


seconded


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