Death-- you ever feel scared of it?

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The idea that if you don't fear death then you fear nothing else is attributing too much rationality to human beings. We are fundamentally irrational creatures.

I am certain I have no fear of death, having faced it on enough occasions to gauge my responses. For example, on occasions that I've been hospitalized for something serious (well, yeah, these days the hospital won't take you in or keep you unless it's life-threatening) that could kill me even with medical help if things went wrong. Like a time when I had gone septic. Sometimes of course I was too out of it to understand death at all. But when I was conscious and aware of things, my response to it was fundamentally quite calm. If translated into words, it would be something like "Okay. I could live or I could die. It's better to live, so I will do everything I can in order to live. But if I die? It's just my time. It's nothing to fear. In fact, wow, I don't even fear the wrong people getting hold of possessions I'd rather keep private to certain people. It's important to me, and yet, if I'm dead anyway, what does it matter? So I will try for life, but if death comes, I'm ready for it and not afraid in the least bit."

Realizing that death is fundamentally not a scary thing did change many things in my life. But it didn't change the fact that I get afraid, even phobic, about some other things. Because the brain just is not logical that way. Phobias don't sit there and reason out, "If I'm not afraid of death, why am I afraid of heights?" (I'm not afraid of heights, it's just an example.) Phobias just happen. And so does fear over other things. I'm afraid of starvation because of how it makes me feel, not because it would kill me. I'm afraid of accidentally doing things that harm others, or that are unethical in some way. I'm afraid of the future of humanity. That death is not scary does not get rid of these things.

Once I was scared to die. But I have been through a near death experience (which I survived, obviously) and I went through the Kuebler-Ross phases in double time. Having gone through the pangs of fear and having walked through The Valley of Death (so to speak) I am no longer frightened, panicked, or terrified by the prospect.

Do not mistake me. As long as I am in good health I have no wish to die any sooner than I have to.

ruveyn

It's funny you should say that about destroying papers and computers in a rapid fashion - that's exactly what happened.

When we were locked in our office, my boss lifted the floor and pulled out a heavy canvas bag. Inside were a few small picks - the type a rock hound would use - and a couple of lighters.

Before we entered our office, we had our AGR's taken from us - that's a gas mask. I assume that's because they were going to gas us to death once we had finished destroying all of the cryptography codes, intel charts and equipment.

As for weapons - those were taken too.

It did strike me as odd how everyone else (the other 4) would know what was going on, and nobody bothered to let me know.

Wow, that is way serious and seems really wrong on several levels. And I'm very sorry that happened to you.

When I was 8, I was so scared of death that I had meltdowns.

been dead 4 times. one i remember quite well. nothing to fear. honest. louie is a 15+or- year old dog who is the only thing i've ever loved and is the only lifeform that's ever loved me. the plan is to go with him. like the cylons, i have a plan. rent a ferrari 458 and crash into a cliff face in ne arizona at about 160 or 170. vaporization. no pain for either of us. i believe we need to go at the same instant if we are to stay together. something i remember from before. fuzzy.

hope this crazy self-preservation instinct doesn't succeed.

trust me, do not be afraid.

That's funny.

I'm not afraid of death because I believe it is the end. However, I am afraid of the process involved in getting there.

You have a right to kill yourself if you want. But take a dog with you because you happen to think it's right for both of you? That's crossing a line that ought not to be crossed. It's an abuse of the power humans have over other animals.

to anbuend......i have spent more than 18,000 hours and given more than 50,000 dollars to help animals of all sorts. i have done everything that's possible to be done to save companion animals. i've been beat up, threatened with arrest, thrown out of places on 6 continents. i'm old, very ill, burned and gimpy. no hope, say the doctors, sorry about all the pain, you just have to live with it.

louie the wonder dog has been through more than i have. i would destroy all human life to save his. no human has ever loved anything more than i love louie. he, like me, has incurable problems. the normal life span for dogs like louie is 10-13. he's really pushing it at 15. he has 3 different veterinarians. we're into palliative care now, helping with his discomfort. they all tell me it's up to louie to tell me when he's ready. they all three say they will come to our home to put him down so he will be in familiar surroundings.

i spend 24 hours a day caring for louie and his brothers and sisters. i've done the best i can for all of them.

$%^@*& #$%#^&$ $%%^ #$%&*&^%$# $$% @#$# $$%^&#*

Last edited by danandlouie on 17 Dec 2010, 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

To respond to anbuend, I think the plan is to wait till the dog's on its last legs. So, no, it's not selfish or directly unfair to the dog.

And, as a human being, yes, you do have the right to decide what to do with your life.

But I'd really urge you to reconsider. Even though I struggled in high school way back in the late 70s, early 80s (my Mom didn't stand up to my Dad's violence, and in kind of a weird and confusing way, she blamed me for being upset). College had enough bullying in the dorms, bad enough when it irregularly and unpredictably happened to be an issue. And people weren't really intellectual. Jobs have been beyond disappointing. And in activism, people were generally standoffish and not really open toward creative people. Okay, with the Internet, if Asperger's is only one out of 1,000 or one out of 300 or whatever, yeah, I can finally work with those odds,even though at times, yes, I have been disappointed in WrongPlanet, and we can't be the only game in town (nor should we attempt to be the one centralized place). And then, just maybe we might be at the beginning stages of political movements, for basically human liberation and that it's okay to be different in ways that count and it's okay to be uniquely yourself. We can call it equal rights. But I think it's far broader than that. It's about reforming institutions so that they're multi-path rather than single-path, esp. on jobs. And that's just for starters!

So, dude, we need you fighting side by side with us. We need you doing the hard slogging day by day of working side by side with us. yes, if nothing else, we need you telling the truth about workplaces from an aspie perspective. It would make me feel better, yeah, someone else kind of sees it the way I see it. And I'm likely to learn some things, and probably other people as well.

(and groups disappoint, of course they do, it's the pattern where the leader almost immediately resents taking on too much work, and it's not adventures and open fields, it's just burdens to be discharged. so, one lesson, don't have a top heavy group, take a deep breath and allow the group to be messy)


maybe it's expecting too much, maybe just the aspect of speaking truth to power

'You treated me as the 'smart' child. That was unfair to me. That was unfair to ________ (my sister)'

'You don't think we should inform our clients of cross-collection. These are our clients. Of course we should inform them.' [to H&R Block 'executive']

I was writing my post before reading this. Think we got crossed in the wires, sometimes I write quick, sometimes it takes me a while. I'll try and think of a response

I've heard doctors are timid, disengaged, etc, about pain killers. They damn well should'nt be

Fixer_Girl, my Dad began committing violence against me when I was in 11th grade. My mother basically made excuses. It was actually worse than that. Not having a good marriage, she kind of treated me a surrogate boyfriend. So with me being upset and standoffish following his violence, and continuing my school protest, I was not available to be her best bud. She resented that and in a way waged war against me. (my mother has the emotional maturity of someone in approx the 6th grade. How much can I really blame her for being the way she is, although of course I have. She's also Aspie, more aspie than I am. Again, how much can I be against her, although of course I have been ) So, overall, no, not a healthy situation at all. I mean, unhealthy as s h i t . . . (And to complicate things, I lived at college '82 to '84, back at home, and then on my own from 1985 to Sept 2008, with money from my parents, at times all the time, other times, just some of the time. Since then, I have been living with my parents--Ouch! Yeah, as a guy in my mid-forties. Yes, it has been a difficult situation. No violence this time, but all kinds of harsh and tricky criticism on the part of my Dad.)

I jumped in because I thought I might be able to help you (and perhaps you help me later on in reciprocal fashion). What I should have also told you also was that I was an anti-war protestor from the first Gulf War in '90 and '91, a pacifist, a believer in nonviolent action, all in my own way. And to take a particular and current issue, I think should look for the good within the Islam religion. Not just the good within individual Muslims as human beings, but also within the religion itself. So, I come with some baggage. And on certain important issues, we may be kind of on opposite sides. I am willing to maintain bridges if you are.

I wish I would have told you this sooner. I would like to think if we have kept conversing a little more, I would have. I tell you now because danandlouie and I might end up discussing activism.

An exception is Henry Spira in Peter Singer's 'Ethics into Action,' actually doing things. Most activism seems to be able getting the newsletter out, the smooth running of the organization, and that kind of stuff ends up taking priority over the actual activities. There's also oneupsmanship, pulling radical credentials, my idea is better than your idea, my idea is better because I am more radical . . . And the flip side, the staid, middle of the road organization, I guess like Humane Society, scared to death of anything that might possibly be criticized, even if it's an excellent idea.

And I guess what's missing, more and more I'm thinking, short-cycle feedback, something that's a good idea but also testable relatively short-term. (this has also helped me add to my repertoire of social skills.)

An excellent example of activism gone astray, the long documentary 'A Kalahari Family.' This guy needs rocks and cements to protect his water pump from elephants (they lean on and push on structures to get to water). The founder is too passionate, comes on too strong. The lady in the office says she just doesn't know (one of the most important things I've learned is to slightly understate my case) This foundation has this beautiful idea of the Kalahari being ecotour guides, only one generation removed, win-win . . . except they're interested in being farmers! It's a complicated plan of someone talking in paragraphs and thinking the other person doesn't get it or should seriously consider it or whatever (very much like an untutored Aspie style). At an earlier stage the founder was essentially barred from the ongoing foundation I guess because he was too controversial. Anyway, months later, the man gets railroad ties and cabl,e which is completely inadequate. The elephants destroy his water equipment, and his farm is dust (at least for that growing season). And the foundation people, seemingly mostly good-natured Europeans, are in the air-conditioned office writing beautiful reports on word processing equipment.


danandlouie, a lot of open fields. A lot of opportunity for a seasoned activist to do some real good. Yes, the right you have to end your life at a time of your own choosing. On the table, but perhaps more held in reserve? And I'm sorry the doctors aren't much good, maybe just doctor shopping till you get someone who's not afraid of just taking some damn chances?

and louie sounds like quite a dog. maybe never again will you meet a dog who you love as much. I guess not, but there's other dogs who could still use some help. And without preconditions, one just never knows, maybe loving in a different way

I once talked with a lady who had a small service dog (maybe kind of like a terrier) She had frequent problems with the buses. I guess because once the bus driver characterizes it one way, then she's not "really" blind or the dog is not "really" a seeing-eye dog (and no, she wasn't a yellow lab). Funny world.

We can still use your help, brother.

If you don't give all the facts and talk about killing your dog in the context of suicide, don't be surprised if people who don't know everything that's going on, and don't know a thing about who you are, find it really really disturbing what you're saying and say something about it. And even if what you're doing is right (which, given all the facts, it may be, and I'll apologize and refrain from judgement on that any further), whether it's right or wrong depends not at all on how many hours you've spent caring for animals. A friend of mine was recently badly abused by a caregiver, and the caregiver said it was okay because of all the help she's given to him and other disabled people over time. All that help doesn't excuse [i]anything[i] she did, and if you were just randomly killing a dog, then all the help you've given to other animals wouldn't make it any better for the dog. So, yeah, I was wrong, but if I'd been right, then helping other animals wouldn't have made your actions right.

to aardvarkgoodswimmer.....thanks for your words...... too late for me. in addition to the trauma, i've developed peripheral neuropathy and have a tumor sitting in the middle of my brain. one pain management doc told me he couldn't help me, i had too many things wrong with me. you have to keep a sense of humor about the things, so i just laughed. the problem with pain meds when you're in serious pain territory (oxycontin, morphine,fentanyl, methadone) is that you must take such large amounts that being able to function comes into question. i have no humans to help either emotionally or physically so if i was going to try to control the pain it would've been necessary to move into an assisted living facility. that, of course, would be impossible. no one to care for louie and friends. oncologist wants to remove the brain tumor. i had to laugh again.

i could only expect this. born a loser. one of louie's doc's told some of the vet tech's i was raised by wolves. this is ok. way it goes

louie was a bait dog. if you're not familiar with that.....it's a dog that is used by dog fighters as teasers for his killers.
his first 5 years were pure terror for him. we belong together. we should go together.

i do what i can to help animal rights causes. it's not much. i've willed everything to animal causes and shelters i trust. that's all i can do.

activism in a serious sense......i just cannot do it now. fun while it lasted. i was able to help lots of animals and cause problems for some abusers.

if you're able to fight for the causes you really care about......that's great.