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zombiecide
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11 Mar 2010, 7:59 am

anandamide wrote:
I usually don't have a clue what people outside my family are truly feeling or thinking unless they tell me or give me some really clear sign, so I am not able to tell very well if they are lying. Although I can assume what they might feel and need through a kind of reasoned judgement, I am usually clueless if they have some personal hidden agenda.

That's mindblindness as well? I thought it was ... normal.


I have trouble lying directly, because I get nervous, make more eye-contact that usually, my eyes also drift to the left. My whole self-experience changes and I suddenly feel like 'I' am very small and my body is a shell, and I have no idea how this shows.
I however am good at omitting part of the truth and leaving gaps that other people usually fill with what they assume has to be there. When talking to other people, I often pause to rearrange my thoughts and my conversation partners often suggest what they think might be the word I was looking for. I don't know if this behaviour is common everywhere, but it is very common where I grew up, and it's a way to show you're being attentive. So, when I don't want to tell the truth about something I use this behaviour by pausing when I don't need to think, and usually the other person 'helps me out' by finishing the sentence with what they think should be there. I do this to avoid confrontation and in the hope that it buys me time to fix whatever was wrong. Often it does, sometimes it doesn't. :roll:
I lie a lot more than I want to because I don't have the guts to tell the truth and face the anger or disappointment of other people (with me, but also with the situation or with other people.)


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schleppenheimer
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11 Mar 2010, 8:08 am

This is a very interesting thread.

My son, who is the most moral, rational, rule-loving person in the world, has absolutely NO PROBLEM lieing to me when it has to do with school responsibilities that he hasn't kept up with. He's good at it, too. He's totally believable.

What I can't figure out is how it benefits him. It hasn't been much of a problem until this year (he's 13, and in 8th grade) when the school expectations have just skyrocketed. Most assignments are online, and we check online constantly, so we know when most things are due -- and if not that, we know when they are late. This is a very real problem, and as a result of his lieing constantly about assignments (and they are usually in English class, the one that he finds the most difficult) we are having to ratchet up the consequences, mostly just having him write lists, check his backpack, check online for missed assignments and check online for homework expectations. It's exhausting for everyone. I hope 9th grade is easier (I hear that it is)!



alana
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11 Mar 2010, 6:15 pm

Aspie_Chav wrote:
Aspies tend not to lie because it henders the progress of science. Lying doe not hender the progress of politics or religion, it actually helps it along.


that is a brilliant thought. you can't get to the truth without the truth, if you are more minded toward discovery of course you are going to value truth. eppur si muove and all that.

I think that is a very succinct way of putting it. I think a neurotypical way of being is to work with what is at hand. a spectrum way might be that what is at hand is not acceptable or desirable. My mother used to drive me crazy with "that's just the way it is" as if people weren't actively engaged in making 'it' that way.



eb31
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17 Mar 2010, 10:45 pm

I don't lie often. I feel that lying is wrong in all cases. However, I will do it if required to protect the health and safety of myself or someone I love. Thats my line in the sand.



CockneyRebel
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17 Mar 2010, 10:51 pm

I find it very hard to lie, or else I feel really guilty if I do so. I just tell the truth, instead. It's that much more easier for me.


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17 Mar 2010, 10:57 pm

Aeturnus wrote:
What sometimes perplexes me is the concept that an aspie couldn't lie because of "theory of mind" deficits. I think it amounts to a notion that we aspies don't want to be involved with people who do lie, because we want to be perceived as the most rational types on the planet. Rationality is still in the eye of the beholder, and whether we want to believe it or not ... What we think of as rational is only rational to the person who believes it. Others may not view it as rational, hence we can be seen as quite stubborn.

I think an aspie can lie, and it seems to be a bit of concern on some parent forums regarding asperger's, where they are becoming more concerned with their aspie teens lying straight to their faces. I think an aspie can lie better than an NT because of the lack of emotion, thus coming off straight-faced. On the other hand, I don't think an aspie can effectively manipulate someone with a lie for a very long period of time, for that requires far more advanced social skills.

I can lie myself, but was never really good at it. I ended up getting caught quite often, and my parents, mostly my mother, has always said that she can tell when I lie by emotional expressions. I tend to laugh on doing so, as if I want to get caught, but I have usually only lied when wanting things to be a bit more joyous around me. I sometimes feel uneasy in situations where people tend to appear to be more agitated or concerned. So, I sort of lied and then laughed, and the lies were usually bizarre anyway. It's just that I did it enough in school for people to start talking to me about crying wolf. I was sort of known for telling outrageous stories.

- Ray M -


for me personally, im a outstanding lier, manly because i rarely lie, i only lie to get my self or some one else out of trouble, being considered a honest person is the greatest tool for a lier.

im also a entp, which is aka the lawyer type :P


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PunkyKat
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18 Mar 2010, 12:15 pm

When I was a kid I went through a phase where I would tell stories about my "friends". I didn't have any friends. I think it was an expirment in lying to see if something bad really would happen to me like my parents claimed.



ASgirl
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18 Mar 2010, 12:58 pm

i am terribly good at telling white lies. they are essential in my life in order to get by. for instance, i have to lie to my mother so that she is not constantly worried about me.



mamc1986
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18 Mar 2010, 8:22 pm

For me lying can be easy or difficult. Like if something is too funny to hide, I just can't help but laugh or smile. But if its something that I absoluty have to keep secret, then I just do the best I can to keep my mouth shut. :P



RSDavis
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18 Mar 2010, 8:56 pm

This is an interesting subject because my son never lies, even to get himself out of trouble. But that wasn't mentioned in any of the AS books I read, so I thought that was just his thing.

Is this common?



riverspark
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18 Mar 2010, 10:28 pm

I constantly got accused of lying when I was a kid, even though I was telling the truth. The way I was brought up, if you could not prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you were telling the truth, it counted the same as lying. This came back to cause tons of problems as an adult, even today. I've lost jobs; been confronted by a crazed, overzealous police detective; and generally gotten a lot of people mad at me. I can't even begin to count the number of times I've told the truth but felt like I was lying, and I'm sure the NTs all read my body language as that of a liar.

One way to send me dangerously close to an instant meltdown is merely to accuse me of doing something I didn't do. I immediately feel guilty even though I'm innocent, and I start nervously fidgeting, decreasing the amount of eye contact, stammering, and showing other behaviors that I believe most people associate with someone who is lying.

Anything even remotely resembling a cross-examination sends me over the edge as well.

The irony of it is, I am one of those people who tells the truth in such detail that I end up screwing myself over by giving out too much information and therefore giving my opposition too much ammo to work with.



LoveHim
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09 Feb 2011, 7:37 pm

my ex best friend /ex occasional friend with benefits (male aspie) lies to me all the time.
he lies about his whereabouts, lies about his activities, lies about staying in school (after he dropped out),lies about love, lies about sexual desire, lies about previous lies, lies about lying. it's all bad here for me as a person who cares for him. i'm not contacting him at all right now. see if he notices.



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09 Feb 2011, 8:37 pm

LoveHim wrote:
my ex best friend /ex occasional friend with benefits (male aspie) lies to me all the time.
he lies about his whereabouts, lies about his activities, lies about staying in school (after he dropped out),lies about love, lies about sexual desire, lies about previous lies, lies about lying. it's all bad here for me as a person who cares for him. i'm not contacting him at all right now. see if he notices.


stop being dumb O.o. you bin complaining about the same guy in almost every single post you have made in these forums. if this guy got so under your skin that every thing that you think about is how hes pissing you off, i think its time you got over your self and say f**k him. (not in that way) my advice for you, cut him off if he troubles you so much, ether that or your trolling.

but ya in closing, some guy you use to love, is now a guy you cant stand, stop dealing with him, ignore him find new friends / love interest and move on.

p.s. sorry for my harshness, but if you going to necro a year old thread long forgotten to use as a platform to tell the world how your ex bf sucks, you needed it bluntly :P


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AKindOfJareth
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09 Feb 2011, 8:48 pm

Though I have the ability to do so, I avoid lying at all costs. To me, deception (unless it is for some truly good reason) is the worst of crimes, as by its nature it is one executed with full self awareness; I think Dante thought the same ;)



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09 Feb 2011, 10:52 pm

I'm very opposed to lying myself. I can do it but i hate it. To me people just don't warrant lowering myself like that. Better I give them the truth even if it embarrasses me. I'll sleep better.

There was a time when I was younger that I would lie to preserve my public image. Don't care much about that today.



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09 Feb 2011, 11:36 pm

I do not like to lie at all and I find it reprehensible. I find omissions of facts to be lies as well.

That said, I certainly CAN lie and pull the wool over peoples' eyes easily. But I choose not to.


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