Whats the difference between Schizotypal and Aspergers?

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pokerface
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23 Jul 2011, 12:30 pm

There is no connection between scyzotypical symptoms and aspergers or other forms of autism.

Autism is a neurological disorder that people are born with and scycotypical symptoms are pyschiatric.

When it comes to the behavioral aspects of people who have scyzotypical symptoms and autism there aren't that many similarities either.



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23 Jul 2011, 12:58 pm

pokerface wrote:
There is no connection between scyzotypical symptoms and aspergers or other forms of autism.

Autism is a neurological disorder that people are born with and scycotypical symptoms are pyschiatric.

When it comes to the behavioral aspects of people who have scyzotypical symptoms and autism there aren't that many similarities either.


I think autism has some psychiatric symtoms.



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23 Jul 2011, 1:06 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
pokerface wrote:
There is no connection between scyzotypical symptoms and aspergers or other forms of autism.

Autism is a neurological disorder that people are born with and scycotypical symptoms are pyschiatric.

When it comes to the behavioral aspects of people who have scyzotypical symptoms and autism there aren't that many similarities either.


I think autism has some psychiatric symtoms.



That's true. The main psychiatric symptoms that people with autism can develop are depression, severe anxiety and anger. I sometimes have feelings of extreme anger and hate towards NT's and people in general which makes me feel very ashamed of myself when the anger has subsided.
Hiding away for a couple of hours or even days is the only solution for me sometimes to prevent things from getting out of hand.



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23 Jul 2011, 2:41 pm

pokerface wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
pokerface wrote:
There is no connection between scyzotypical symptoms and aspergers or other forms of autism.

Autism is a neurological disorder that people are born with and scycotypical symptoms are pyschiatric.

When it comes to the behavioral aspects of people who have scyzotypical symptoms and autism there aren't that many similarities either.


I think autism has some psychiatric symtoms.



That's true. The main psychiatric symptoms that people with autism can develop are depression, severe anxiety and anger. I sometimes have feelings of extreme anger and hate towards NT's and people in general which makes me feel very ashamed of myself when the anger has subsided.
Hiding away for a couple of hours or even days is the only solution for me sometimes to prevent things from getting out of hand.


Those are not psychiatric symptoms of autism those are mental illneses except for anger which is just an emotion, not psyciatric symptoms of autism. I was talking about symptoms of autism that are psyciatric by nature. like processing outside information slower.....that is a fairly common one that applies to me and is a symptom.



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23 Jul 2011, 3:36 pm

I think it's very likely that the fundamentals of schizotypal personality disorder and autism overlap to a certain extent. There could be other factors to schizotypal PD that autism is absent of.

The one person I know of who supposedly has schizoid personality disorder (my ex gf) has shown strong indication of both autistic AND narcissistic personality disorder traits. I'm not sure I'm totally absent of the latter either...


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Last edited by OJani on 23 Jul 2011, 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

pokerface
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23 Jul 2011, 3:37 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
pokerface wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
pokerface wrote:
There is no connection between scyzotypical symptoms and aspergers or other forms of autism.

Autism is a neurological disorder that people are born with and scycotypical symptoms are pyschiatric.

When it comes to the behavioral aspects of people who have scyzotypical symptoms and autism there aren't that many similarities either.


I think autism has some psychiatric symtoms.



That's true. The main psychiatric symptoms that people with autism can develop are depression, severe anxiety and anger. I sometimes have feelings of extreme anger and hate towards NT's and people in general which makes me feel very ashamed of myself when the anger has subsided.
Hiding away for a couple of hours or even days is the only solution for me sometimes to prevent things from getting out of hand.


Those are not psychiatric symptoms of autism those are mental illneses except for anger which is just an emotion, not psyciatric symptoms of autism. I was talking about symptoms of autism that are psyciatric by nature. like processing outside information slower.....that is a fairly common one that applies to me and is a symptom.


The symptoms that I have described can be the psychiatric side effects of autism. I don't know if problems with processing outside information is pychiatric symptom in the case of autism. It's probably more of a neurologic symptom.



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23 Jul 2011, 3:58 pm

pokerface wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
pokerface wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
pokerface wrote:
There is no connection between scyzotypical symptoms and aspergers or other forms of autism.

Autism is a neurological disorder that people are born with and scycotypical symptoms are pyschiatric.

When it comes to the behavioral aspects of people who have scyzotypical symptoms and autism there aren't that many similarities either.


I think autism has some psychiatric symtoms.



That's true. The main psychiatric symptoms that people with autism can develop are depression, severe anxiety and anger. I sometimes have feelings of extreme anger and hate towards NT's and people in general which makes me feel very ashamed of myself when the anger has subsided.
Hiding away for a couple of hours or even days is the only solution for me sometimes to prevent things from getting out of hand.


Those are not psychiatric symptoms of autism those are mental illneses except for anger which is just an emotion, not psyciatric symptoms of autism. I was talking about symptoms of autism that are psyciatric by nature. like processing outside information slower.....that is a fairly common one that applies to me and is a symptom.


The symptoms that I have described can be the psychiatric side effects of autism. I don't know if problems with processing outside information is pychiatric symptom in the case of autism. It's probably more of a neurologic symptom.

what exactly is the difference I would think it has a neurologic cause but the resulting symptom I exiperiance is psyciatric as it has to do with the mind and thinking. And I do not think autism causes depression or anxiety, ones experiances because of having it could cause or contribute to it though.



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23 Jul 2011, 3:59 pm

OJani wrote:
I think it's very likely that the fundamentals of schizotypal personality disorder and autism overlap to a certain extent. There could be other factors to schizotypal PD that autism is absent of.

The one person I know of who supposedly has schizoid personality disorder (my ex gf) has shown strong indication of both autistic AND narcissistic personality disorder traits. I'm not sure I'm totally absent of the latter either...



Schizophrenics are very likely to have Narcissistic Personality Disorder[NPD] but not always. I know a Schizophrenic who has NPD and also one who doesn't have NPD.



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30 Jul 2012, 9:09 pm

Bumping this up just a bit because I just found it.

I've been looking a lot at psychotic disorders almost obsessively in the past few days and I found this. I haven't been on this site in a while.

What really confuses me is the fact that Asperger's syndrome and schizotypal personality disorder can not co-exist.

My obsessive interests as an aspie are the ones that may be more attractive to someone with SPD than a person with AS due to the tendency for magical thinking. I am obsessed with the occult, magic, mysticism, and psychic things and I just can't get enough reading on those subjects.

The confusing thing there is that it is both an obsessive interest and a result of my distorted mode of thinking. It seems like both magical thinking and an obsessive interest.

Maybe I just have a problem keeping my imagination and my reality separate like "mona the vampire" because I was full blown delusional in elementary school and now the same delusions intrude as suspicions but I don't believe them with the same certainty.

When I was in school I thought I was in a war-zone. I thought that there was designated territory and any older students coming into my area were invading and I actually slashed someone with a sharp piece of metal from a tin can in order to enforce my perceived territory system. I slashed and ran but I only scratched him so he and his friends just laughed. They said "dude, he just slashed you man" and they acted like it was nothing.

I studied every nook and cranny of the school so I knew where to hide. I kept sneaking inside the school at recess and I even hid under an idling truck from perceived threats.

I thought I had magical powers and was absolutely confused by the fact that I wasn't seeing spirits because I thought I should've been.




I kind of distracted the focus because most of that became reduced at some point which suggests I may just have been a real life "mona the vampire" with no borders between my imagined world and the real world. They were together.


Now I know I don't have magical powers but instead I can't help but suspect it as an intrusive thought so that's gotten me interested in the occult. That's my obsessive interest and I haven't known another aspie who shared it even in a school full of aspies. Nicole didn't share it. Thomas didn't share it. He preferred Karate. Daniel Williams didn't share it because he was the hyper-logical kind of aspie. Daniel Capilli didn't share it. Michael didn't share it. Laura didn't share it. Edward didn't share it. James didn't share it. Braydon didn't share it. Carolyne didn't share it. Josh didn't share it. John didn't share it. Nobody shared it even though they shared their interests with each other and that made me feel alone even among people of similar condition to me.



Anyway, I'm not as delusional as I used to be I just feel the need to keep reminding myself that the intrusive thought that was once a delusion isn't true. I am not psychic. I know that more than I used to but the creeping suspicion is still there and it has it's influence. It is the reason for my obsession.


Asperger's and SPD are mutually exclusive. You either have one or the other. That means if I have a definite hallucination it is considered an isolated hallucination not related to a mental illness. If I have five and I think I've had at least five (not counting the ones that were a coping mechanism) including one full blown psychotic episode it is still isolated because in nineteen years that is not very frequent. That's less than once every three years for hallucinations and one complete break from reality for every nineteen years.



I have been really focused on schizotypal personality disorder. I know that a lot of my own experiences still vaguely fall into aspie experiences but they are so borderline that even though I know I probably don't have SPD I keep seeing similarities.

Everybody does that. So many people read about conditions and start to think they have them. I still think my obsession with SPD exists because it would explain a lot of my own experiences and personal oddities even if I don't have it.



Anyway, I know I'm paranoid and I probably do not have schizotypal personality disorder but I have been reading about it just because of the striking similarities it has with my experience with AS.


At the very least there is overlap. There could have also been confusion because my brain seems to be a neurological hybrid if you look at diagnostic criteria. My pediatrician remarked that I met 4 out of 8 of the diagnostic criteria for numerous different disorders that it was confusing. My brain could have schizotypal qualities along with qualities of AS. Maybe not a misdiagnosis but a misleading one.

I'm not saying I have SPD or that I was misdiagnosed in some way because my thoughts are clearly not as educated as someone with credentials or whoever wrote the DSM.

I have just been looking very closely at SPD because of the similarities.

Sorry for the mammoth post.



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30 Jul 2012, 9:17 pm

Nominally, they are different spectrums. However, schizotypal disorder is only diagnosed in adults.


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30 Jul 2012, 9:22 pm

seaturtleisland wrote:
Bumping this up just a bit because I just found it.


Oops. I thought the most recent post was in 2011. My mistake. I guess I wasn't bumping it up so that remark was absolutely pointless.



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30 Jul 2012, 9:29 pm

seaturtleisland wrote:
Oops. I thought the most recent post was in 2011. My mistake. I guess I wasn't bumping it up so that remark was absolutely pointless.


Doesn't matter. A discussion is a discussion.


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30 Jul 2012, 9:40 pm

There seem to be some misconceptions in this thread.

Research is finding that individuals classified as being on the schizophrenia spectrum have an "atypical" neurology--and that signs arise early in development. The same neurolocial soft signs that autistic people exhibit are also found in schizoids/schizotypals. Bizarre movements/stereotypies/and tics are also associated with these disorders. Repetitive/ruminative thinking and OCD are features of schizotypes.

There may be schizoids who are schizoid because of emotional trauma/upbringing, but this isn't so for schizotypals. Schizotypals are almost certainly born, not made.

Autism is genetically correlated with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. Guess what? So are schizoid and schizotypal PD.

Schizotypals have "body illusions". Autistic people have "sensory issues". Both have high levels of social anxiety. Both can have bizarre preoccupations; they are just driven by different motivations.

Yes, there are differences between these folks. But the cavern is not very deep. Anyone who thinks they understand the complexities is almost certainly fooling themselves.



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24 Sep 2012, 11:23 am

I would believe that they are very similar as well. I thought that because this diagnose is mutually exclusive with asperger's and shizoid disorder, and only with those two, it would mean that they were similar. A psychiatrist can diagnose the same person with both this diagnose, and with asperger's syndrome, because he/she doesn't necesarilly know what is causing it, and can't separate them in that way. The psychiatrist does not know if it is solely neurological or if it is neurological as well as mental sickness. Since it has so many similar symptoms, someone with Asperger's can have thoughts and tendencies towards what would be considered magical or schizotypal, like via becoming more eccentric over the years or having an atypical personality and different ideas than what is considered to be normal, but that doesn't change the fact that the person have AS and not schizotypal disorder. That the core problem is neurological, not mental sickness. Some psychologist told me this once as well, I don't think she was wrong? She said they were hard to separate.



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24 Sep 2012, 3:03 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
SammichEater wrote:
All of us here should know what AS is. This is Schozotypal personality disorder (source), to make an easy comparison.

Quote:
Schizotypal Personality Disorder

A pervasive pattern of social and interpersonal deficits marked by acute discomfort with, and reduced capacity for, close relationships as well as by cognitive or perceptual distortions and eccentricities of behavior, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

ideas of reference (excluding delusions of reference);
odd beliefs or magical thinking that influences behavior and is inconsistent with subcultural norms (e.g., superstitiousness, belief in clairvoyance, telepathy, or "sixth sense"; in children and adolescents, bizarre fantasies or preoccupations);
unusual perceptual experiences, including bodily illusions;
odd thinking and speech (e.g., vague, circumstantial, metaphorical, overelaborate, or stereotyped);
suspiciousness or paranoid ideation;
inappropriate or constricted affect;
behavior or appearance that is odd, eccentric, or peculiar;
lack of close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives;
excessive social anxiety that does not diminish with familiarity and tends to be associated with paranoid fears rather than negative judgments about self.

Where do you draw the line between someone who is merely eccentric and someone who has something as horrible-sounding as schizotypal personality disorder?! Many people believe in telepathy, many have had bodily illusions, and most people are superstitious to one degree or another. It is only when you add a little paranoia, a degree of social isolation, some social anxiety... that a psychologist can begin to feel more confident in making this diagnosis. Perhaps, in the schizotypal, we are looking at a combination of slight psychotic tendencies mixed with social anxiety and/or Asperger's syndrome.


From this, I'd say the biggest difference is that schizotypal is more of a learned behavior, whereas AS is a neurological condition that is most likely genetic. They are not mutually exclusive.


Well I don't that a personality disorder is really learned...as that would indicate one could easily fix the disorder by learning a different way of being. But from what I read there is no absolute cure of the disorder.

Anyways I suspect there is a possibility I could have schizotypal personality disorder as well as AS...before my counseler and I came to the conclusion I had AS I was actually thinking schizotypal PD fit me pretty well but did not explain the things AS did like the lack of understanding of social interaction, the obsessions I've had and other AS things.

Though I have to say I do not think my extra senses are nessisarly a delusion....except when they get out of control and play tricks on me. Like if I am alone in a room and someone I cannot see silently comes in I can sense their presence....but sometimes when I am alone and no one is there I feel like there is someone there for example.


I agree that neither is "learned" (like a neurosis could be thought of a learned behavior- faulty software and not hardware).

They sound only superficially similar (because sufferers of both tend to lack friendships). To me schzotypal seems to be a quite different condition.

Asperger's and autism are present from birth. Schzotypal manifests in a similar pattern to full blown schzophrenia, its sounds like, starting in the late teens or early twenties.

Aspergers and autism dont involve magical thinking. Schzotypal aparently is schzophrenia lite ( not full blown delusion- but magical thinking and paranoia).

The lack for friendships is about the only similarity, and even that doesnt seem to occur for the same reasons. So they are quite different.

But thats not to say that you couldnt have both at the same time. Just that if you had only one it not the same as the other.



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24 Sep 2012, 7:38 pm

I am glad this got bumped up. I have been reading and thinking over this subject for a couple of months now, for a friend and for myself.
I am pretty sure, having looked at this really hard today that I am on the spectrum and not schizotypical...just due to my approach, and my approach to the study of spirituality over a broad range of cultures and a wide swath of time. I see spiritually as a hardwired system not for all but for many probably. Since I am one of those pattern kinds of people, you could say certain things get highlighted as "not spiritual" in certain people...flaws, if you will...and those might be schizotypal or schizophrenic, or antisocial personality disorder symptoms. For example, I had a young friend who seemed only to be spiritually curious for years, but as she's been approaching adulthood some extremely alarming things have been coming up. For example, a manipulative belief that she can make people forget things. That's not part of any time-honored spiritual system of belief that I know of. That was clearly outside the boundaries for me, so it got highlighted as mental illness (other signs too), and in no way a spiritual experience. I hope she gets some real help. I recall once she said to me I needed to be careful of burning bridges (with her) and I was shocked she thought I had excused our friendship over such a minor thing, and I reminded her that I don't build relationship bridges out of toothpicks, I build them to last...out of iron beams that can stand trials, and suggested she do that too. I think the look she flashed me might have been one of contempt, like she percieved that as a weakness (but I don't).

I've had to take a tough look at paranoia myself. As a psych friend says...just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. And my personal history has proven that to be so true. PTSD can make paranoia into a monster if I let it. Another friend pointed out that in the past when I've gotten hunches on things...aren't they often right? yes. Often very helpful for myself and others. I feel that is due to the way I use patterns, and I've been into lots of different kinds. It seems to me that an autistic with an interest in spirituality/religion who is seriously struggling with social patterning, might come across as schizotypical to a psych professional looking closely, but not closely enough to see they are struggling to weed out the negative relationships and keep the trustworthy ones. My personal paranoia results from people being in that "in between status" when people I normally trust are connected to things that aren't right, but I haven't yet worked out who's actually responsible for a variety of problems (and sometimes it's me!). As I work through the system people are restored to trusted status (or not), and I identify and eliminate system flaws that were my fault to begin with. But it can be a very long and tricky process, and it concerns the people around me.

I know the success statistics on social patterning are not great due to people being unpredictable, but I value the relationships enough to try anyway. My paranoia is specific to this situation. From what I understand of schizotypical personality, they would not bother trying, but they would write everybody with trust-in-doubt off as a whole, and the paranoia would be more general and not limited to people with specific connections, or to a particular situation. If that is the sort of disconnected world my friend is living in, I feel sorry for her. It's hard to imagine treating my situation that way.
The end result of my system is less stress due to problems eliminated, more self confidence, and the relationships that are left are proven more trustworthy so I might actually be more open than I was before. That's the goal, anyway and it took a little while to work a system out, but it seems to have worked fairly well. And I deeply appreciate all the help I have had with it around here. I have not done this alone, and I don't think I could've done this so well without my friends here at WP. :) I have learned a lot and I'm still learning, and I'm getting a little itch to start blogging on what I'm currently learning because I'm finding it immensely useful.


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