Utopia - From the top of my head I think YES

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HairlessAlbinoCat
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10 Nov 2011, 2:03 am

Ai_Ling wrote:
[...] I also have never quite understood why NTs don't like debating things... i mean, don't they want to figure out the truth about things too?
O well, maybe we Aspies should form our own country & live together, [...]


A country of only Aspies - eventually we would resemble Vulcans psyche-wise



swbluto
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10 Nov 2011, 2:17 am

I think an aspie community or commune would be interesting. I don't really know if an actual "aspie society" would be able to have a self-sustaining economy since communication, "social bonds" and the "leader + followers" model underlies much of the economy and aspies aren't exactly well known for those qualities; if this forum is any indication, it appears an aspie economy would tend to be fractious and not-so-well-functioning.



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10 Nov 2011, 2:27 am

Who would take care of me? :(



swbluto
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10 Nov 2011, 2:34 am

Sparx wrote:
Who would take care of me? :(


Yourself? Another aspie?

I don't know about you, but I think aspies are fully capable of "real work" just like neurotypicals. They might be less productive, on average, but still just as capable meaning they could take care of themselves if they had access to the "means of production" (Marxist terminology). It just so happens that the "means of production" is under control mostly by NTs in this society, and that puts aspies at a distinct economic disadvantage.



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10 Nov 2011, 3:06 am

swbluto wrote:
Sparx wrote:
Who would take care of me? :(


Yourself? Another aspie?

I don't know about you, but I think aspies are fully capable of "real work" just like neurotypicals. They might be less productive, on average, but still just as capable meaning they could take care of themselves if they had access to the "means of production" (Marxist terminology). It just so happens that the "means of production" is under control mostly by NTs in this society, and that puts aspies at a distinct economic disadvantage.


Yeah...
I suppose that it would be a lot easier to take care of myself if I lived in an "Aspie world", because I'd likely not get overloaded or extremely stressed, and could therefore function properly, because I'd be working with a bunch of people similar to myself. :P A world full of Aspies would be relatively quiet, I imagine.



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10 Nov 2011, 4:28 am

swbluto wrote:
I think an aspie community or commune would be interesting. I don't really know if an actual "aspie society" would be able to have a self-sustaining economy since communication, "social bonds" and the "leader + followers" model underlies much of the economy and aspies aren't exactly well known for those qualities; if this forum is any indication, it appears an aspie economy would tend to be fractious and not-so-well-functioning.


The Swiss seem to have managed quite well with direct democracy for the last couple of centuries.

Perfect aspie system.



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10 Nov 2011, 6:14 am

HairlessAlbinoCat wrote:
Ai_Ling wrote:
[...] I also have never quite understood why NTs don't like debating things... i mean, don't they want to figure out the truth about things too?
O well, maybe we Aspies should form our own country & live together, [...]


A country of only Aspies - eventually we would resemble Vulcans psyche-wise


Yep. Especially that Vulcan tendency to melt down when someone changes the colour of the curtains, or something similar.


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10 Nov 2011, 9:35 am

The concept of a Utopian society is as faulty as any other conceptualization that invokes "perfection". This holds true for an Autistic Utopia as much as any other.

Perfection is one of those constructs that the human mind is adept at creating that has no actual referents to reality. It is an absolute formulation akin to an "All Powerful God" that immediately gives rise to paradoxes such as "Can God make a rock so big He can't lift it?" and further, because the paradox exists, people conclude that deities are impossible without ever considering it is simply the human mind's inadequacy for describing concepts that approach universal scope.

The universe exists without paradox. It simply exists. It is the weaknesses of our descriptions that give rise to pseudo-paradoxical constructs.

The idea of an Autistic Utopia is one example of a construct based on a form of perfection. The very concept itself gives rise to multiple paradoxes and impossibilities. It is at most an amusing exercise that can perhaps illuminate how autistic could contribute to society in a more positive manner.

The autistic community would be far better served by accepting the reality of our "condition". It is simply a statistical variant of neurological norms. This variance, in its multiple manifestations, creates unique challenges and sometimes advantages. But those challenges and advantages exist within a larger context - the spectrum of humanity. Autism has a place within that human spectrum. That place is not automatically that of a needy disabled person utterly dependent on the generosity of others. Nor is it some supra-human Aspieville.

We need to get over ourselves. For every aspie genius there are 10 that are not. And even aspie geniuses are not on a level playing field with the other geniuses of the world. For every aspie genius there are 10 normal geniuses (nit pickers can challenge the exact ration of aspie genius to regular, but it doesn't change the point).

We are part of something larger than us. Period. We need to learn how to adapt to that reality instead of wishing for a different, and impossible, reality.


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10 Nov 2011, 10:38 pm

Who_Am_I wrote:
HairlessAlbinoCat wrote:
Ai_Ling wrote:
[...] I also have never quite understood why NTs don't like debating things... i mean, don't they want to figure out the truth about things too?
O well, maybe we Aspies should form our own country & live together, [...]


A country of only Aspies - eventually we would resemble Vulcans psyche-wise


Yep. Especially that Vulcan tendency to melt down when someone changes the colour of the curtains, or something similar.


Agreed my Gp does not question the "fact" that Ben Ladin was killed by the Americans or isn't willing to doubt he even existed.



Or the possibility it could have been an insider job I mean come on a few young Arab men with rusty bolt cutters with little flight training could well you know the rest.



I'd expect better from some one so learned especially so one who's meant to be open minded about these things


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10 Nov 2011, 11:06 pm

I don't particularly like the idea of adapting to things as they are (I have not done well either) I think there is something positive to be said about the tension between the is and what you think ought or should be.

I think it'd be better to try to change things at the indvidual human level at the local community and environment(not meaning "nature".). Doing something like this, even if it is for not for profit purposes, but other interests because they are simply of interest. At this level at the very least it could give moore of a sense of control over ones life. There could be something done on a small scale that if it actually did work could be federated with similar groups for their common goal or purpose.

If it didn't work, or people didn't like it, it would stay small or fail.

An aspie utopia doesn't seem necessarily good to me. I care more about the structure and system then who is in charge or identity.