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MrXxx
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21 Nov 2011, 8:25 pm

Really? Do we really need to go "there" again? :roll:

For crying out loud, don't we have better things to do?


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Kail
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21 Nov 2011, 8:29 pm

MrXxx wrote:
Really? Do we really need to go "there" again? :roll:

For crying out loud, don't we have better things to do?


I don't :shrug: :bball: :study:



btbnnyr
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21 Nov 2011, 8:34 pm

Can someone explain why Hitler had Asperger's and why Stalin did not have Asperger's? In each case, which eggsac behaviors are ruling Asperger's IN-OR-OUT, not as delicious as IN-N-OUT?



swbluto
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21 Nov 2011, 8:46 pm

From wikipedia on the Beer Hall Putsch event (It was Hilter's attempted coup d'etat of Germany):

Quote:
Hitler became irritated by von Kahr and summoned Ernst Pöhner, Friedrich Weber and Hermann Kriebel to stand in for him while he returned to the auditorium to make a speech (as he had promised some fifteen minutes earlier). Flanked by Rudolf Hess and Adolf Lenk, Hitler returned to the auditorium to make an extemporaneous speech that changed the mood of the hall almost within seconds. Dr. Karl Alexander von Mueller, a professor of modern history and political science at the University of Munich and a supporter of von Kahr, was an eyewitness. He reported:

I cannot remember in my entire life such a change in the attitude of a crowd in a few minutes, almost a few seconds ... Hitler had turned them inside out, as one turns a glove inside out, with a few sentences. It had almost something of hocus-pocus, or magic about it.


Tell me of an autistic that can manipulate a neurotypical crowd so quickly and skillfully?

None, it just doesn't happen. You need to understand how people think and you need to appeal to their emotions by being emotional and dramatic AND it was entirely impromptu! It wasn't rehearsed!

Something like that just doesn't happen with aspergers.



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21 Nov 2011, 8:51 pm

artrat wrote:
I think he was. He has many of the characteristics of aspergers.
If you see the video of his speeches he seems so distant from his audience. He seems like he doesn't even notice they are watching. He gets so passionate about his speeches. He was very paranoid. He was intelligent like most autistic people. His special interest was world domination.

I think people here are ashamed of Hitler being autistics/aspergers because they don't want to be compared to him in any way. I don't think you should worry about that because he clearly has other things mentally wrong.
I am not defending him. I despise Hitler and don't think autism is an excuse for what he did.
He is not the only person to blame. He had many followers. Without them Nazi Germany or the holocaust would have never happened.

Stalin killed more people than Hitler and he's not considered autistic. That should make you feel better.


Hitler took several "vitamin injections" per day to increase his energy and focus. These vitamins contained, among other things, 5mg of Methamphetamine Hydrochloride. He also took amphetamine and methamphetamine tablets, and cocaine hydrochloride eye drops.

His public intensity was only partially natural. It is believed that his stimulant intake increased as his demands increased throughout the war, and resulted in the constant tremors that were long suspected to be Parkinsonism.

I really don't see much evidence that Hitler was autistic, neither, however, do I think that he was wholly psychopathic. I think Hitler was a once in a lifetime cluster f@ck of personality disorders. No one condition can account for his impact on history.


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Ria1989
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21 Nov 2011, 8:51 pm

swbluto wrote:
From wikipedia on the Beer Hall Putsch event (It was Hilter's attempted coup d'etat of Germany):

Quote:
Hitler became irritated by von Kahr and summoned Ernst Pöhner, Friedrich Weber and Hermann Kriebel to stand in for him while he returned to the auditorium to make a speech (as he had promised some fifteen minutes earlier). Flanked by Rudolf Hess and Adolf Lenk, Hitler returned to the auditorium to make an extemporaneous speech that changed the mood of the hall almost within seconds. Dr. Karl Alexander von Mueller, a professor of modern history and political science at the University of Munich and a supporter of von Kahr, was an eyewitness. He reported:

I cannot remember in my entire life such a change in the attitude of a crowd in a few minutes, almost a few seconds ... Hitler had turned them inside out, as one turns a glove inside out, with a few sentences. It had almost something of hocus-pocus, or magic about it.


Tell me of an autistic that can manipulate a neurotypical crowd so quickly and skillfully?

None, it just doesn't happen. You need to understand how people think and you need to appeal to their emotions by being emotional and dramatic AND it was entirely impromptu! It wasn't rehearsed!

Something like that just doesn't happen with aspergers.


EXACTLY. that's the definition of a sociopath.


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Kail
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21 Nov 2011, 8:53 pm

Tambourine-Man wrote:
artrat wrote:
I think he was. He has many of the characteristics of aspergers.
If you see the video of his speeches he seems so distant from his audience. He seems like he doesn't even notice they are watching. He gets so passionate about his speeches. He was very paranoid. He was intelligent like most autistic people. His special interest was world domination.

I think people here are ashamed of Hitler being autistics/aspergers because they don't want to be compared to him in any way. I don't think you should worry about that because he clearly has other things mentally wrong.
I am not defending him. I despise Hitler and don't think autism is an excuse for what he did.
He is not the only person to blame. He had many followers. Without them Nazi Germany or the holocaust would have never happened.

Stalin killed more people than Hitler and he's not considered autistic. That should make you feel better.


Hitler took several "vitamin injections" per day to increase his energy and focus. These vitamins contained, among other things, 5mg of Methamphetamine Hydrochloride. He also took amphetamine and methamphetamine tablets, and cocaine hydrochloride eye drops.

His public intensity was only partially natural. It is believed that his stimulant intake increased as his demands increased throughout the war, and resulted in the constant tremors that were long suspected to be Parkinsonism.

I really don't see much evidence that Hitler was autistic, neither, however, do I think that he was wholly psychopathic. I think Hitler was a once in a lifetime cluster f@ck of personality disorders. No one condition can account for his impact on history.


:salut: :hail: Great points! :)



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21 Nov 2011, 8:59 pm

swbluto wrote:
Tell me of an autistic that can manipulate a neurotypical crowd so quickly and skillfully?

None, it just doesn't happen. You need to understand how people think and you need to appeal to their emotions by being emotional and dramatic AND it was entirely impromptu! It wasn't rehearsed!

Something like that just doesn't happen with aspergers.


I've done that. Watch enough films and you could too.



artrat
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21 Nov 2011, 9:03 pm

Ria1989 wrote:
1. Hitler had followers.
2. People with Asperger's generally ARE followers.
3. How many people do you know with Asperger's can make normal people become their followers?


The reason Hitler had followers is because Germany after the first world war was hell.
Germany was blamed for the first world war and punished. The military and economy were crap. Hitler used this to gain power.people just thought he was crazy at first but then people agreed with him. He then blamed the communists and took power. He probably was not a natural leader.
He had many traits of aspergers. That is why scientist think he has aspergers. Not because of his actions.

It's very possible with the right political circumstances at the right time. people in Germany were insane at the time.
It wasn't easy for him. He really struggled.



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21 Nov 2011, 9:11 pm

Angel_ryan wrote:
He's dead so really we'll never know.
This.



swbluto
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21 Nov 2011, 9:16 pm

fraac wrote:
swbluto wrote:
Tell me of an autistic that can manipulate a neurotypical crowd so quickly and skillfully?

None, it just doesn't happen. You need to understand how people think and you need to appeal to their emotions by being emotional and dramatic AND it was entirely impromptu! It wasn't rehearsed!

Something like that just doesn't happen with aspergers.


I've done that. Watch enough films and you could too.


Okay, I don't think "watching enough films" could cause the captor to have the ability to instantly reverse the opinion of an audience who's being held hostage. We're not talking about making highschool speeches before the PTA, we're talking about hostages! Can you imagine hostages in a bank heist could be instantly made sympathetic to their captors with a simple speech when they're pointing their uzi's at them? It's not going to happen for any normal person let alone someone autistic.


Anyway, I looked at Hitler's history on Wikipedia and found...

Quote:
He changed from being confident and outgoing and an excellent student, to a morose, detached, and sullen boy who constantly fought with his father and his teachers.[26]


and

Quote:
Adolf attended school in nearby Fischlham, and in his free time, he played "Cowboys and Indians"


and

Quote:
Hitler and his friends used the German greeting "Heil", and sang the German anthem "Deutschland Über Alles" instead of the Austrian Imperial anthem.[34]


and

Quote:
He enrolled at the Realschule in Steyr in September 1904, but upon completing his second year, he and his friends went out for a night of celebration and drinking. While drunk, Hitler tore up his school certificate and used the pieces as toilet paper. The stained certificate was brought to the attention of the school's principal, who "... gave him such a dressing-down that the boy was reduced to shivering jelly. It was probably the most painful and humiliating experience of his life."[35] Hitler was expelled, never to return to school again.


We have a confident, outgoing and excellent student who played cowboys and indians, sang and drank and went out with his friends as a youngster and who tore up his school certificate and used it as toilet paper. I'm definitely getting the vibe of a sociopath more than someone aspergian.



Last edited by swbluto on 22 Nov 2011, 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

fraac
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21 Nov 2011, 9:22 pm

Someone as smart as me read Mein Kampf and said Hitler had Aspergers. I take that as strong evidence, based on how smart I consider myself.

Sociopaths aren't better than anyone with crowds.

"... gave him such a dressing-down that the boy was reduced to shivering jelly."

Sociopaths wouldn't care. So we have a lot of very dodgy evidence.



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21 Nov 2011, 9:23 pm

artrat wrote:
It wasn't easy for him. He really struggled.


I know I've pulled this out context, but...

Really? I mean, really? Who gives a damn? Really. Once a person, whoever they are and whatever they've been through, crosses the lines Hitler did, they deserve no sympathy, empathy, mercy or consideration of any disorder they may or may not have. The only thing he should be remembered for is for the purpose of learning how NOT to allow anyone like him to be enabled to do what he did again.

Too bad the humanity is a race of such slow learners, because it's happened dozens of times since then. And it will keep happening as long as we as a society keep looking for excuses for allowing such behavior. That's a side point from the AS question by the way. I'm not insinuating that anyone here is looking to excuse Hitler because he might have had AS. All I can say is "Why should it matter? He was a despicable human being deserving of nothing better than death, and he's dead anyway. Learn from the mistakes of those who allowed him to do what he did and move on."

I don't care what he may or may not have had. Some people are just plain evil. He was one of them. Glad he's dead.


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21 Nov 2011, 9:47 pm

Hitler might have had AD(H)D, but there's no way in hell he was an Aspie. Most of the people around Hitler were textbook psychopaths (Goebbels, in particular). Think logically about it for a moment... can you even *fathom* a half-dozen psychopaths rallying around a guy with Aspergers and declaring loyalty to him? A narcissist with ADD *might* have been able to recognize the psychopaths around him and play them off against each other to safeguard his own power. An Aspie would have been crushed and kicked to the curb by them at the first opportunity.

Ditto, for Speer. Think about it for a moment. How many Aspies do you know who could even *stand* to work for a narcissistic boss with ADD, let alone one who's certifiably insane and has no regard for human life? Watch an episode of "Flipping Out" on Bravo, and tell me you genuinely believe an Aspie could work for that guy without getting fired or quitting in a fit of meltdown rage? If you think it's stressful to work for a boss who's an egomaniac, imagine going to work every day knowing he also has a gun, and could shoot you on a whim with complete legality. If anything, Speer was the most blatant psychopath of them all, because HE was able to mostly get away with being one of Germany's most powerful Nazis, yet somehow convince everyone that he was just a poor, powerless architect who only wanted to build the world's fabulous new capital city, and had no idea how evil his closest and dearest friends were.



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21 Nov 2011, 9:56 pm

I don't think anyone is suggesting he was just an aspie.



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21 Nov 2011, 10:02 pm

Kail wrote:
Hitler was an exponential evil genius tho?, Where and when did he deteriorate? :S ?

Hitler's religious views were fanaticism I does believe.

That story about your history teachers is a lot like a "lie to me" episode, 11, season two called beat the devil.


trying to find the episode details online, only finding bits and pieces, mostly about Cal. What in particular is reminding you of it? (Yeah I don't have cable and I am not sure if the show is on netflix, else I would check it out. I do get the basic gist of the show, considering I watched maybe half the first season before I got rid of cable.)


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