Asperger's and Avoidant Personality Disorder

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I have both Asperger's and Avoidant Personality Disorder. AvPD is a behavioral, post-traumatic disorder that can develop in anyone born with a natural inclination towards introversion. It's different from social phobia in that the behavior, itself, is pathologically ingrained. Many on spectrum are traumatized and alienated by our experiences, -- and there you are: Instant Avoidant.

There's actually quite a divide within Avoidant communities between those who are primarily post traumatic and those who are Aspie-Avoidants like me. The unfortunate result is often Aspie-ineptitude vs. tempestuos despair. Not a great combination.

Key to the post topic

I LOVE your key avatar (keys are one of my obsessions). Makes my eyes pop!

At any rate, back the subject at hand: Some of us do not fit Avoidant or Antisocial disorders.

We just like being alone. A lot less complicated, a lot less confusing. I am not shy or particularly introverted. I am very stubborn. I am like a cat. Solitary, for the most part. It just feels better.

It might seem like I have it but I don't because in the criteria I don't avoid people for those reasons. Only thing I might fit is the rejection part. After being rejected my whole life I just gave up in my teens because they didn't have things in common anyway and they were all boring so I quit trying. Why be friends with someone who doesn't even have things in common with you?

I feel inferior to others. I used to have fear of being taken advantage of so that be my reason for not trusting new people. I would have to know them well first to make sure they won't ever hurt me. Then I decided to take the chances because I needed to because that was the only way I could find a guy. Who wants to be with a woman who can't even trust them?

I have some low self esteem but it isn't severe. I'm shy but I don't know if it's extreme shyness.

I'm waiting for those DSM geniuses to describe HSAD, Hot Stove Avoidance Disorder.

That's a disorder where somebody has found that every time they touch a hot stove they burn their fingers, so they avoid touching hot stoves.

Sounds like somebody I know

(not myself)

It's my understanding that the diagnoses for all of the common personality disorders predate those of AS by something like 50+ years. Most of the people with Avoidant PD were probably more likely AS but, no one knew of such at the time.

I am an Avoidant Aspie, too! I just looked up AvPD, and found out that inattention is one of the symptoms. They said that's because you are in a near-constant state of anxiously trying to analyze other peoples' opinions of you, as well as edit your own behavior. So that means it not only magnifies all of the social trouble we Aspies already experience, but our problems with inattention as well. Yucky!

Fortunately, it is considered one of the more treatable personality disorders. I think I am going to look into treatment, not only because AvPD is miserable in itself, but also because I am seeking employment, and I think I would have an easier time learning a new job if my AvPD was under control.

Whether we like it or not, we Aspies are indeed perfectly capable of having personality disorders.

Sorry--we can't pin every (mis)behavior on AS or AT.

Co-morbidities are just that--other/additional "things" that can "go wrong." Like being diabetic and getting skin cancer, or having high blood pressure and heart disease.

Sometimes one pathology (ie "thing wrong") has little/nothing to do with the other "things" that are "wrong," other times there are strong connections.

I explain to people that living/dealing with Aspy traits is like having to walk to the carnival of life instead of drive or ride like most other people. We've got some obstacles and circumstances that can "hold us up," but even once we "get there," we still have to pay for admission, pay for rides, pay for food, stand in line, throw up on the roller coaster, etc etc etc. In other words--just because we managed to get there doesn't mean that nothing else can/will "go wrong" that NT's (people who got to ride or drive to the carnival of life) have to deal with, too.

And to bring this back where it started--all Aspies don't have ASPD as a valid diagnosis, and all ASPD don't have AS...but there is a sliver of shared Venn Diagram overlap.

The diagnosis/diagnoses used to be thought of solely as "the reason" but the evolving/current thinking in medicine/psych is that mental health diagnoses can/should be thought of as summaries of constellations of symptoms/expressions. Unlike in physical medicine--or perhaps apart from physical medicine--where the diagnosis is supposed to reflect the etiology (ie the underlying cause/origin) of whatever problem(s) is/are manifest. It's easy to get it all mixed up, chicken or egg, etc.

It can be confusing until you realize how medical thinking strives to be scientific/objective in the same way that legal thinking strives to be blind/objective. The problems/confusion come from misconceptions and from "not knowing yet what things we don't know yet."

Point is--yes, an AS can also carry a diagnosis of ASPD.

Great post, KP! And in attempting to uphold the authority of most current medical thinking, there is a reticence to admit "what things we don't know yet."

Z

Yes there is unfortunately tremendous reluctance to admit "not knowing" in medicine. I have never understood it, whether at the micro level (eg provider who doesn't know or isn't skilled at something that is on his/her "to do" list), or the macro level (eg professional associations that are more concerned with protecting their image/authority/turf than propping the doors to further understanding/development wide open). Very frustrating and counterproductive for patients and society...and absolutely maddening (as well as potentially catastrophic) to providers who don't have a problem admitting such things or asserting them to their colleagues who prefer mantles of superiority to cloaks of humility.

This is an old post but something I'm very much interested in. I've wondered if I have avoidant personality disorder for many years now. Just recently began to wonder if I have AS but bit less sure about that one. I'm pretty sure they are separate disorders and you can have both at the same time. As someone has already said one is neurological and the other is about personality development (or non development as the case may be). I would also imagine that someone with AS is probably at risk from developing AvPD because of their AS. I'm not sure what the rate of co-morbidity is.

I don't have AvPD but have mild SAD (Performance Anxiety). Here are the major differences between the two:

http://www.anxietyhelp.org/information/avpd_vs_sad.html

Avoidant personality disorder? Oh come on! It's crap like this that causes people to think the DSM is all BS.

Got a personality? There's a disorder for that!

I was diagnosed with Schizoid PD about 40 years ago and simply accepted it for a long time until I began to read more about it and learned that those with SPD had no desire for any kind of social interaction. This confused me until I read about Avoidant PD about a year ago and I began to think that this described me much better than SPD. If you look at your Wikipedia article list of AvPD traits though, you will find that self-loathing is one of those listed, which does not describe me at all (among a few of the others). It was not until I learned what AS really consisted of 6 months ago and was finally diagnosed with it that I had a list of characteristics that truly fit my personality completely. From what I understand, AS is indeed comorbid with AvPD (as well as many other disorders) so it is indeed possible to have both in various shades and degrees.

There is one post here on WP (don't have the link handy now but do a search for the word "diverse") that I just love which describes AS and it's siblings so well. That statement is, "the spectrum is so wide, so deep and so diverse". Found it... here is the link... many thanks to quaker for such a profound yet simple statement.

> http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt138461.html

Well actually, where I live, adult people are not diagnosed with autistic spectrum disorders, because the official statement is that they are 'for children only'. So if you are very lucky and find a psychiatrist who has read DSM-IV (these are rare birds), you get a diagnosis of either Schizoid, Schizotypal, Avoidant or Obsessive-Compulsive personality disorder. Or perhaps Dependent or Passive-Aggressive PD.

TCI applied in clinical settings showed for me ''95 % risk of having a personality disorder'' and Anxious/Aloof characteristics that put me in the category of avoidant personality disorder. Funny thing is, when I did the test, I was part of a control group for autism spectrum disorders. Why wasn't in the case group? Well, I was on the research team, they must have presumed we were all normal

Here's the proposed revisions of AvPD in upcoming DSM-V:

"The work group is recommending that this disorder be reforumulated as the Avoidant Type.

Individuals who match this personality disorder type have a negative sense of self, associated with a profound sense of inadequacy, and inhibition in establishing intimate interpersonal relationships. More specifically, they feel anxious, inadequate, inferior, socially inept, and personally unappealing; are easily ashamed or embarrassed; and are self-critical, often setting unrealistically high standards for themselves. At the same time, they may have a desire to be recognized by others as special and unique. Avoidant individuals are shy or reserved in social situations, avoid social and occupational situations because of fear of embarrassment or humiliation, and seek out situations that do not include other people. They are preoccupied with and very sensitive to being criticized or rejected by others and are reluctant to disclose personal information for fear of disapproval or rejection. They appear to lack basic interpersonal skills, resulting in few close friendships. Intimate relationships are avoided because of a general fear of attachments and intimacy, including sexual intimacy.

Individuals resembling this type tend to blame themselves or feel responsible for bad things that happen, and to find little or no pleasure, satisfaction, or enjoyment in life’s activities. They also tend to be emotionally inhibited or constricted and have difficulty allowing themselves to acknowledge or express their wishes, emotions – both positive and negative – and impulses. Despite high standards, affected individuals may be passive and unassertive about pursuing personal goals or achieving successes, sometimes leading to aspirations or achievements below their potential. They are often risk averse in new situations."

http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevisions/P ... spx?rid=20