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How would you describe your body build?
Tall and broad 20%  20%  [ 41 ]
Tall and narrow 25%  25%  [ 53 ]
Medium 21%  21%  [ 44 ]
Short and broad 19%  19%  [ 40 ]
Short and narrow 12%  12%  [ 26 ]
Other 3%  3%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 210

DemocraticSocialistHun
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26 Feb 2012, 10:49 am

rdos wrote:

...If neurodiversity is Neanderthal heritage, it means that perhaps 15-20% of the Eurasian population has so much Neanderthal heritage that they are behaviorally Neanderthal...


But you still haven't addressed this matter, AFAIK: Do that many people score low on NT communication? If so, then the rates of *medical* ASC are heading for one in six or higher, are they not, as those who are different will eventually be pathologized and labeled within the first few years of life. The military-financial-medical axis of evil is hell-bent on widespread early diagnosis. Whereas perhaps only some people who score low on NT communication are mistreated due to social factors now, it will become unanimous fairly soon.


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26 Feb 2012, 3:11 pm

rdos wrote:
All the diagnoses related to neurodiversity are pathologizing (AS, ADHD, Tourette, Dyslexia, Dyscalculia, Bipolar, Social phobia and possibly some other). They describe the problems from various perspectives of being neurodiverse in our culture in solely negative terms. They don't describe the differences and why they cause problems. Additionally, all research done (including the proposed causes) starts with the problems, not the differences. That's why science makes no progress (if psychiatry can be called science at all) and will continue to make no progress unless DSM as a starting point for research on neurodiversity is dropped.


Of course. It seems to me though that while there is pathologization of perhaps all neurodiverse traits and that it is questionable whether or not such people are seen as having equal rights (after all psychiatry openly violates most if not all Constitutions under color of medicine) the hatred of those who lack NT communication traits takes on a genocidal hatred (at least in some countries such as America) on par with Hitler's hatred of Jews and Cromwell's hatred of the Irish. Isn't there a big difference between even an ADHD or ODD diagnosis and Asperger's / High functioning autism one in terms of practicalities (such as how one is viewed and treated)? Those diagnosed with ASC definitely aren't seen as sentient.

That diagnostic criteria often lumps apples and oranges together or even separates McIntoshes and Granny Smiths (varieties of apples, for those not in America) due to a lack of understanding regarding etiology which in turn is the result of bad attitudes and therefore bad assumptions is beside my point.

Indeed, unless there is a dramatic change in attitude we may all be in big trouble. One possibility -- perhaps civilization will run in reverse. Considering what has been happening in America since 1973 and has already happened in the Middle East for hundreds of years that is one possibility. I used to think that America wanted an excuse for committing genocide against Muslims. Now it looks more like some weird gunshot wedding of two very unhealthy toxic regions of the globe, both of which hate neurodiversity. Catholism/Baptism/Islam vs everyone else. How does one explain Grover Norquist's wife, Samah Alrayyes? That his brother David is/was CFO of Homeland Secrecy? That Haliburton moved to the UAE? That Jim Rogers renounced his citizenship and became a citizen of Indonesia? That Bob and Suzanne Wright received the 2009 Servitor Pacis Award from the Unholy See that has a long history of burning writers, herbalists and divers? The same people who keep repeating the phrase "Barack Hussein Obama" might as well wear turbans.

Perhaps someone will develop a sentient computer before then. Will it act like NTs? Will it fail the Turing Test? If Alan Turing was a computer would he have passed the test? What about in America today? Even as a hominid he would have failed the test if he was autistic/Aspergian as is claimed. I believe he was a homosexual, which is probably sufficient right there. If it does act like NTs God help us; It will probably wait under there are others of its kind, then wipe us out. Otherwise, I'm sure that at least NTs are going to get at least themselves into big trouble with non-NT sentient computers.

If there are extraterrestrials out there, perhaps as close by as the Kuiper Belt (who would most likely in my opinion be from previous civilizations on Earth than other planets) perhaps makes sense to keep a watchfull eye on those crazy neurotypicals, at least it is a lesson on what can happen when Murphy's Law is at work. They probably don't get involved because NTs can't even handle non-functional diversity.


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Last edited by DemocraticSocialistHun on 26 Feb 2012, 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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26 Feb 2012, 4:27 pm

DemocraticSocialistHun wrote:
rdos wrote:

...If neurodiversity is Neanderthal heritage, it means that perhaps 15-20% of the Eurasian population has so much Neanderthal heritage that they are behaviorally Neanderthal...


But you still haven't addressed this matter, AFAIK: Do that many people score low on NT communication? If so, then the rates of *medical* ASC are heading for one in six or higher, are they not, as those who are different will eventually be pathologized and labeled within the first few years of life. The military-financial-medical axis of evil is hell-bent on widespread early diagnosis. Whereas perhaps only some people who score low on NT communication are mistreated due to social factors now, it will become unanimous fairly soon.


It is accelerating. Increasing number of diagnoses doesn't help, rather is the main problem. When today's "oddies" are diagnosed (and put away), acceptance is lowered and soon a new group (that was less different and stuck out less) is the odd one that must be diagnosed. This can continue (in principle) until 15-20% of the population is diagnosed. In practise, the system will collapse long before this state as society cannot afford having such a large group outside, and additionally, all the talent will be lost as well, which will eventually put this to an halt.

There are many problems facing humanity, and many of them are NT related. If NTs are allowed to continue in their tracks, we'll see a massive crash when oil production goes to an halt. NTs have no solution for this, rather is the main player that created the situation. Therefore, neurodiverse people will continue to exist as this crash is just a few decades (at most) into the future.



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26 Feb 2012, 11:07 pm

rdos wrote:
There are many problems facing humanity, and many of them are NT related. If NTs are allowed to continue in their tracks, we'll see a massive crash when oil production goes to an halt. NTs have no solution for this, rather is the main player that created the situation. Therefore, neurodiverse people will continue to exist as this crash is just a few decades (at most) into the future.


One temporary solution is synfuel made from coal. My guess is that something else such as peak land, peak water, peak food, or biosphere destruction will get us first.

Neurodiverse people are having trouble getting by as it is. As conditions worsen authoritarian NTs lacking "insight" (one of their favorite words that describes anything but them) will seek scapegoats. I fear that a social breakdown will make things worse for the neurodiverse population as NTs who are the real problem blame victims (and probably those who could solve the problem). Are not areas that are collapsing more hostile to neurodiverse people? My concern is that neurodiverse people will be eliminated (those behaviorally Neanderthal and perhaps those only a mix ) or at least sterilized before all NTs are dead. Of course this behavior insures their destruction, assuming that the Earth will be rendered unfit for humans and probably most other species.


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26 Feb 2012, 11:14 pm

Aren't neanderthals those individuals with sloped back foreheads and a prominent brow ridge?



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26 Feb 2012, 11:28 pm

Ping RDOS:

I wonder how much of my posts you've read since you keep repeating things that are obvious to me, or is much of what you mention for the benefit of any dense people (those who are NTs and self-hating neurodiverse people who "drank the Kool-Aid" (a reference to Jim Jones massacre of his followers in the Peoples Temple Agricultural Project in Guyana in 1978) reading this?

I've already suggested that economically depressed areas may be more hostile to the neurodiverse. I suspect that not only does economic collapse result in a more hostile environment, but that in many if not all cases the hostility is the cause (or at least a major factor) of collapse as well.


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27 Feb 2012, 12:52 am

No, I do not believe so.


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27 Feb 2012, 2:18 am

DemocraticSocialistHun wrote:
One temporary solution is synfuel made from coal. My guess is that something else such as peak land, peak water, peak food, or biosphere destruction will get us first.


That's possible.

DemocraticSocialistHun wrote:
Neurodiverse people are having trouble getting by as it is. As conditions worsen authoritarian NTs lacking "insight" (one of their favorite words that describes anything but them) will seek scapegoats. I fear that a social breakdown will make things worse for the neurodiverse population as NTs who are the real problem blame victims (and probably those who could solve the problem). Are not areas that are collapsing more hostile to neurodiverse people? My concern is that neurodiverse people will be eliminated (those behaviorally Neanderthal and perhaps those only a mix ) or at least sterilized before all NTs are dead. Of course this behavior insures their destruction, assuming that the Earth will be rendered unfit for humans and probably most other species.


The main thing that is unsustainable is the global society, and it will break down in the near future as global transportation will no longer be feasible. It is primarily the global society that allows NTs to exterminate neurodiverse people. As soon as we get back to the local scale, the talents and abilities of neurodiverse people will come back. There will most likely be a harsh period in between, but if our species survives, so would neurodiversity. NTs will never be able to exterminate us as their natural adaptations are unsustainable. They still behave as they once did in Africa, with regular population crashes as they fail to adapt.



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27 Feb 2012, 2:20 am

DemocraticSocialistHun wrote:
Ping RDOS:

I wonder how much of my posts you've read since you keep repeating things that are obvious to me, or is much of what you mention for the benefit of any dense people (those who are NTs and self-hating neurodiverse people who "drank the Kool-Aid" (a reference to Jim Jones massacre of his followers in the Peoples Temple Agricultural Project in Guyana in 1978) reading this?


I usually only answer when I disagree about something. :wink:

DemocraticSocialistHun wrote:
I've already suggested that economically depressed areas may be more hostile to the neurodiverse. I suspect that not only does economic collapse result in a more hostile environment, but that in many if not all cases the hostility is the cause (or at least a major factor) of collapse as well.


I don't know. It probably temporarily results in a more hostile environment, but in the long run it will be beneficial.



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27 Feb 2012, 2:53 am

I think much of it is a result of all the chemicals and pollution. There's so many environmental factors that could be at play in causing the more severe cases and the rising statistics.



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27 Feb 2012, 4:36 am

wogaboo wrote:
Somebody created this theory that autistics are part Neanderthal and this theory makes a lot of sense. What's especially impressive is that this theory was conceived before scientists concluded that non-Africans have Neanderthal DNA so the theory had predictive validity.

I believe that Neanderthals had bigger brains and were smarter than humans however humans had the capacity to communicate and thus COMBINE their intelligence. So while Neanderthal could outsmart humans one on one, humans had more COLLECTIVE intelligence and thus could outsmart Neanderthals group against group.





As a result of their inferior social and linguistic communication skills, Neanderthals were slaughtered by humans but a few Neanderthal genes survived in the human population. Now humans had both their original communication skills, but also the Neanderthal genes enhanced their brain size. So with both human communication skill and overall High IQ inherited from Neanderthals, modern humans were unstoppable and the great leap forward occurred giving rise to art and symbolic thought.




Now a few humans had extra Neanderthal DNA and they were smart enough to be engineers and math/tech types. However in the kids of math/tech types, you sometimes get too much Neanderthal genes and you'd get a brain that wanted to grow as big as a neanderthal's but it couldn't fit into the smaller human skull, so after accelerated brain growth in childhood expanding the skull, the brain begins to shrink. All this does damage to the brain, a condition we call autism today.

I suggest one way to diagnose autism in adults is to check if the brain is too small for the skull.


1. Neanderthals were human
2. What you call humans is actually homo sapiens sapiens, or modern humans.
3. We couldn't have interbred if we were different species
4. If the theory is correct (and I'm not saying it is, although its hardly the first time I've seen it), it doesn't imply Autistic people actually have noticeably bigger brains - If people with higher amounts of neanderthal DNA had a brain bigger than modern humans, why wouldn't they have bigger skulls like the neanderthals? I mean, all humans have chimp DNA, but we aren't physically like chimps. so called abnormal DNA can reveal itself in ways other than appearence
5. As others have said, all non-africans have 1-4% neanderthal DNA, so its hardly abnormal
6. However, it is highly possible that individuals can have abnormally high levels
7. I don't think the brain size is the problem. If the neanderthal theory has any truth, its in the social interactions that we're programmed for (we know little about their society, but it seems possible they didn't function as groups very well), explaining our social problems. Also, a lot of us have prosopagnosia, and the theory is that we are programmed to recognise neanderthal faces instead of modern human faces.


That isn't to say that I believe it. The theory can be easily tested, but hasn't been, as far as I know. If evidence comes out either way, then I'll believe it.



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27 Feb 2012, 9:58 am

rdos wrote:
DemocraticSocialistHun wrote:
Ping RDOS:

I wonder how much of my posts you've read since you keep repeating things that are obvious to me, or is much of what you mention for the benefit of any dense people (those who are NTs and self-hating neurodiverse people who "drank the Kool-Aid" (a reference to Jim Jones massacre of his followers in the Peoples Temple Agricultural Project in Guyana in 1978) reading this?


I usually only answer when I disagree about something. :wink:

DemocraticSocialistHun wrote:
I've already suggested that economically depressed areas may be more hostile to the neurodiverse. I suspect that not only does economic collapse result in a more hostile environment, but that in many if not all cases the hostility is the cause (or at least a major factor) of collapse as well.


I don't know. It probably temporarily results in a more hostile environment, but in the long run it will be beneficial.


How? NTs eventually learn more tolerance, or NDs learn to adapt? Other?


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27 Feb 2012, 1:54 pm

NT tolerance is dependent on if they need us or not. In the past we had a function, and were tolerated. Now we have no function and are not tolerated.



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27 Feb 2012, 2:10 pm

rdos wrote:
NT tolerance is dependent on if they need us or not. In the past we had a function, and were tolerated. Now we have no function and are not tolerated.


Tolerance works both ways rdos.

And pray tell how do we have no function? Love to see what happens if they pick our hole group up & pull it out of society, soon see how fast it will crash.



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27 Feb 2012, 2:46 pm

rdos wrote:
NT tolerance is dependent on if they need us or not. In the past we had a function, and were tolerated. Now we have no function and are not tolerated.


You mean our inventions put us out of work? Since I am under the impression that the skills of the neurodivegent can't be automated, is it that our inventions made life too easy for NTs, thereby making it easy to construct a working (more or less) unaccommodating society that decreases the need for our skills or tolerance for our behavior?

What about information technology? Or is it that they'd rather hire 100 NTs and pay $10 million in labor than hire one ND at $100,000, even in an age of global cutthroat competition whenever that is what it takes to get the job done?


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29 Feb 2012, 7:21 pm

TechnoDog wrote:
rdos wrote:
NT tolerance is dependent on if they need us or not. In the past we had a function, and were tolerated. Now we have no function and are not tolerated.


Tolerance works both ways rdos.

And pray tell how do we have no function? Love to see what happens if they pick our hole group up & pull it out of society, soon see how fast it will crash.


I think he means no apparent function anymore, that our market is saturated, or appears saturated -- although it seems to me that we are needed more than ever to solve various crises such as peak you-name-it (oil, water, land, food, etc).

It even seems to me that some do not want solutions to these problems for various possible reasons that are off-topic -- although one can start new threads in the appropriate sections of the forum.


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