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Feralucce
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26 Mar 2012, 10:47 pm

OR you can simply accept that they are NTs and don't really understand.


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Callista
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27 Mar 2012, 3:13 am

No offense, but that's kind of bigoted in and of itself. It's assuming that just because someone is NT, they'll never learn. You have to give them a chance. Most of the time when somebody says AS is fake, they're just repeating something they heard somewhere, and never really thought about. You really can educate people. If they still insist on it after they have the facts, then you can write them off. Not until then.


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AspieOtaku
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27 Mar 2012, 4:01 am

Saying Aspergers is fake is like saying Autism altogether is fake while they are at it they might as well say ADD and AD/HD is fake as well. People who actually believe it is fake are obviously misinformed and need to do their research.


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27 Mar 2012, 4:25 am

*shakes head* stupid people



VicSage
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27 Mar 2012, 6:25 am

Ignorance is not a valid excuse imo. There's loads of information out there and anyone with an internet connection can access it. Some people just don't want to understand.


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Feralucce
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27 Mar 2012, 6:50 am

VicSage wrote:
Ignorance is not a valid excuse imo. There's loads of information out there and anyone with an internet connection can access it. Some people just don't want to understand.

This argument doesn't sit well with me. It is the same argument that many combative religious people will use to condemn everyone. "We've been talking, god is going to judge you. Ignorance is not a factor."

There is plenty of information out there, but there needs to be a reason to look it up, and most people don't have that motivation. It's kind of like your special interest... it hooked you, but you cannot expect everyone else to be interested in it.

And honestly... I prefer the ignorant to the other end of the spectrum... Autism speaks...


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katwithhat
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27 Mar 2012, 7:25 am

MrXxx wrote:
Every now and again I'd like to tell certain people Autism is highly contagious (be they people who believe it's fake or people who believe it's a horrible thing).

"If you're reading this, you've got it now too and have only two weeks to live."

I've never actually done it, but I've contemplated it.


...sounds fun.


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Feralucce
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27 Mar 2012, 7:34 am

Callista wrote:
No offense, but that's kind of bigoted in and of itself. It's assuming that just because someone is NT, they'll never learn. You have to give them a chance. Most of the time when somebody says AS is fake, they're just repeating something they heard somewhere, and never really thought about. You really can educate people. If they still insist on it after they have the facts, then you can write them off. Not until then.

We are, at our roots, apes. I expect anyone wearing a human shell to be an ape. I am always pleased when I find one that has earned the "Sapiens" of their name (wise). And it is a realistic expectation of an NT to behave that way...

However, it is not bigoted. A bigot is a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion. I am tolerant in the extreme.

Besides... I have this expectation of ALL humans... We each view the world through a lens warped by our own perceptions and experiences... because of that, it is realistic to say that, unless i make an effort to make them understand, they won't get it. (aspies included)


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VicSage
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27 Mar 2012, 8:16 am

Feralucce wrote:
This argument doesn't sit well with me. It is the same argument that many combative religious people will use to condemn everyone. "We've been talking, god is going to judge you. Ignorance is not a factor."

There is plenty of information out there, but there needs to be a reason to look it up, and most people don't have that motivation. It's kind of like your special interest... it hooked you, but you cannot expect everyone else to be interested in it.


Ok fair point. Some people are ignorant and don't have the sense/means to research something before making up their mind. Many others though are not and would rather evade reality because it does not fit into their worldview and makes them uncomfortable.

If you have time please read this dissection of Tony Humphreys article on Autism and how it is caused by poor parenting.

Is Tony Humphreys ignorant or dishonest? For me it's pretty clear it's the latter.


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WildMan
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27 Mar 2012, 9:03 am

This may be more common in America than in other places, but I can't say that for sure. Folks tend to have this "common sense" view of the world, and anything that falls outside of that is probably made-up bullsh*t being used as an excuse.



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27 Mar 2012, 10:43 am

I wish.


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Feralucce
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27 Mar 2012, 10:50 am

VicSage wrote:
Ok fair point. Some people are ignorant and don't have the sense/means to research something before making up their mind. Many others though are not and would rather evade reality because it does not fit into their worldview and makes them uncomfortable.

If you have time please read this dissection of Tony Humphreys article on Autism and how it is caused by poor parenting.

Is Tony Humphreys ignorant or dishonest? For me it's pretty clear it's the latter.


I think it's both...

However, those that would rather evade reality are ignorant as well... but theirs is a crime... theirs is the crime of being WILLINGLY ignorant... Ignorance I can forgive... willing ignorance... I cannot


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27 Mar 2012, 11:23 am

abyssquick wrote:
I once ran into a person who thought Asperger's was a "fake" disease.


The problem is that it could mean several different things:

- "It is fake that there are people with the traits associated with AS (they are just pretending)"

- "It is fake that people with the traits associated with AS have any «syndrome» (it is only the normal variation of human traits)"

- "It is fake that people with the traits associated with AS have the same condition (it is a mix of people with unrelated conditions - and some perfectly healthy but only eccentric - lumped together by a trendy name and an over-inclusive diagnostic criteria)"

some of these hypothesis sounds more solid than others.



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27 Mar 2012, 11:40 am

mushroo wrote:
Your friend is not completely wrong. Aspergers did not "exist" for the first half of my life. It is something new that we are still learning and discovering about. Basically it is nothing more than an imprecise label for something we don't really totally understand.

Also it is not a "disease" in the sense you can't catch it from someone (except *maybe* your parents), you can't see it under a microscope, it won't kill you or make you sick, and there is no cure or treatment.


Bipolar disorder did not exist either. It was referred to as manic depression.

It was only when studying it that American psychologists noticed the differences in it, and thus the types.

I also think personally that bipolar or manic depression was a label slapped on an awful lot of people with functional autism.

My nana was supposedly manic depressive (she died in the 80s but was diagnosed in the 60s) however, she exhibited no signs of mania according to my mother who lived with her.

Instead she was like me. She would get confused and scared and refuse to leave the house, had constant panic attacks and huge bouts of depression, and did not exhibit any suicidal tendencies or behavioural patterns until she was around 40 years old.

Mum said she was always a little odd. Not in a bad sense, because she was a lovely person and spoiled my father rotten, but that she used to dress strangely.

I think things are improving for the mentally ill, but I still think we have a long way to go. Just getting these illnesses realised and accepted is the first part of the battle IMO.



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27 Mar 2012, 11:43 am

Callista wrote:
No offense, but that's kind of bigoted in and of itself. It's assuming that just because someone is NT, they'll never learn. You have to give them a chance. Most of the time when somebody says AS is fake, they're just repeating something they heard somewhere, and never really thought about. You really can educate people. If they still insist on it after they have the facts, then you can write them off. Not until then.



Or they don't really understand what it really is. They read about it or hear about it and just assume it's social awkwardness or someone who has very strong interests and they maybe have strong interests themselves or know someone who does and they think it has turned into a disorder. Just like how lot of people think ODD is a made up disorder but I know it's real because I knew someone with it. I may have also thought it's all made up if I didn't know someone with it.



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27 Mar 2012, 1:07 pm

I really do not discuss it with any but my close friends, and you folk here, so I avoid that reaction. After all, in 50 years, I have had a lot of "acting" practice at being NT.
And it was not recognized in the USA until 1994. So some people think it is just a trend. Plus, unfortunately perhaps, even specialists do not always agree on what it EXACTLY is. Other than a person being on the Autistic spectrum.

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Matthew