Lets stop the segregation!

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I think we just need to sort out own shite out and get to know ourselves for what and who we are. Its tougher for us because unlike something else such as ADD, dyslexia, diabetes, muscular dystrophy, AS and autism have this way of lending a self-imposed illusion that we are more different than we really are and a lot of this is based on the fact that its set up just right for our own visibility of other people AND ourselves (our own emotions, instincts, etc.) to be blocked out a bit. I agree with stinkypuppy NTs are very different, just like aspies are very different, I still think its just a quick reference of diferentiating like diabetic and nondiabetic but still its always gonna be a slippery slope because the tendency to draw "us vs. them" out of it is too easy and its tough to thwart. There's so many us's versus so many thems....good people vs. people who've taken a hard fall or just are inherently a bit twisted, sometimes class vs. class, nonsmokers vs. smokers, dems vs. repubs, Michigan vs. Ohio State (lol, one of my favorite prospects right now), some aspies vs. some types of NT's is just one of those things that crops up a lot because of its relevance to us - makes it real easy to forget that again if its NT vs. NT in the same sense it stands to reason that no one group in particular has any unified control of anything, everyone's on one level unified in a community but on another level very separate, in abstract I think we should at least understand and accept the idea that as aspies we may enjoy communicating with aspies a lot just because its something we don't get often and in some cases its refreshing. We also do have to keep track of the fact that many NT's are just like us but dress differently, persue different interests, maybe have life experiences or internal experiences that we haven't which just put them in a different place and all too often its amazing just how much alike you find that certain types of NTs are to you - sometimes its like they're almost more like you than other aspies but then again from a different side of who you are because, lol, you aren't single-faceted either and so on that note you can't say that being AS fully defines you or that being NT fully defines them in anyway. Its just shorthand.

Right on everybody..

I have a problem with calling people fakers too..

Why on earth would someone fake something like aspergers?

I only found WP because a doctor told me about PDD's and found aspergers through this.

I love it here, I love the fact that we can debate almost any topic (usually) with passion yet without insults and generic name calling etc.

I'm very idealistic, ultimately though I struggle to communicate with most, though I can't handle anyone close to me because as soon as one is I obsess over them till they're gone... I still believe in connection and communication.

I still believe we can share information one way or another.

Oh and yes, I've met ignorant aspies.

SOME people will not tolerate us, but they are the target, not the entire group to which they belong!

Its just like saying "hey that guys skin was red, he robbed a bank, therefore all red skinned people must be disposed to robbing banks"

Of course there is a communication gap, we can breach it in many ways, but it will get wider if we continue to claim we're some form of moral elite. If we continue to claim that you're faking aspergers if you believe in equality. If we continue to separate amongst ourselves on the basis of differing opinions.

Though truth is universal (in my opinion) perception is not..

I strongly believe it is pointless to criticise or deconstruct anothers view without offering something in its stead.

(excuse the rant)

Those who accuse people of faking must believe that their own experience with AS is somehow "more legitimate" than that of the accused, as though there were a "real" and "invalid" AS experience. People with AS don't all manifest the same traits, so undoubtedly there's going to be variations in perceptions of experiences, and consequently differing opinions of assorted life situations. AS in itself has a spectrum, perhaps a subspectrum of the autism spectrum.

Yeah why would fakers fake in the first place, and come here and do it? For the sake of trolling? I have already seen certain AS people doing a good job here at trolling...

Hmm, interesting way of putting it. (Just for the record, I was playing Devil's Advocate back there.)

I wonder.... I'm given the impression that most of the NT hatred does not come from the NTs themselves, but from the ignorant groups such as Cure Autism Now and Autism Speaks!

Fair enough.


I think the concept of "NT hatred towards those with AS" is really people's reaction to something they don't really understand. This is not an exclusively-NT trait; this is a human trait. People with AS are just as guilty of this as NTs, and this observation becomes painfully apparent in certain situations. Anybody with a very close AS-AS friendship will know what I mean!

Groups such as Cure Autism Now and Autism Speaks operate under a premise that autism is an undesirable biological condition. I agree, they are sorely overlooking the positive aspects of very mild forms of autism. However, we should not overlook the fact that there are many people on the very severely affected end of the spectrum, those autistics whose symptoms are so debilitating that they can't take care of themselves physically at all. Do these severely-affecteds have compensatory positive attributes? It's hard to say; many of them literally can't speak for themselves. The question is how do we help them? How do we gain a better understanding of why autism is a spectrum in the first place? Is there a way to keep good attributes and have less severe negative attributes? Who even decides anyway what is "good" and what is "bad"??

Sorry for the tangent!

Truth be told, I think a simple rewording/renaming of their sites would work perfectly. I don't think anyone would take offense if they were simply for helping those affected by autism/disorders caused by autism (the nonverbal/unable to live type) to an extreme degree.

To separate things into 'AS = good' and 'NT = bad' is, to be frank, completely retarded. I'm beginning to be sickened by the amount of anti-NT stuff on this forum. Like StinkyPuppy said, it simply stems from a lack of understanding, and, IMO, a lack of willingness, to learn. You need to accept that, in this world, majority rules, and so (unless you don't mind being isolated, which is fine for some people) you should learn about 'normal' people. It sucks, but nobody is going to conform to your own social habits anytime soon, especially as most people with AS express it in very different ways. There has to be a standard, and NTs, as the majority, set it. Nothing to be bitter about - it makes sense, that's just how it works.

I can understand that some people have had bad experiences with NTs, but to say therefore that all NTs are the same is a ridiculous stereotype. Stop trying to be morally superior; as this forum proves, a lot of people with AS can be just as arrogant and close-minded as some NTs with the same traits.

I think the problem stems from categorising them as NTs instead of people. Remember that they're people just like you. Lots of NTs get bullied. It should be the assholes that you hate - not NTs in general. It's like saying that because some easterners are terrorists, all of them are. Or you met one white/black person that was a jerk, so therefore all of them are. Do you see now how ridiculous the whole stereotyping thing is?

We need to try and move away from this kind of stuff. There's enough stereotyping in the world as it is; this is just another form of it, hiding behind a false mask of moral superiority. People have done that before, in the form of lynching and (in the case of America during WW2) denying refugees access to the country, therefore condemning thousands of asylum-seekers to death. If you want to look more into that, search for Robert Yerkes.

What I'm saying is, don't allow yourself to become so close-minded as to become a hypocrite.

After a lifetime if mixing, mingling, and getting scapegoated, I demand the right to segregate. That doesn't mean anybody else should. It doesn't mean that I hate NT's - I love them dearly, from a safe distance.

If you demand the right to segregate, then you cannot complain about others segregating away from you, otherwise it just looks hypocritical. If you think their segregating away from you is bad, then why would you or anybody think that it's not as equally bad to do the same thing against them? It's a double standard.