the ultimate motivation

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Hello,

I suppose almost anyone has some kind of 'motivational deficit', so this thread might as well be for you. I have been trying to find a solution to mine, but what I noticed mostly is that I am too different from other people for common advices to work. Maybe I am even too different from you, because of experiences in life.

To clarify what I mean by (ultimate) motivation: Some feasible idea and/or method that generally enables you to truly do what you want to do, despite all irrational limits. Obviously you cannot do certain things because of real limits, like lifting 500kg without training or scoring 200 points on an IQ test or just overcoming your anxiety disorder only because you want to. But suppose you can earn 20 USD an hour, then earning 2000 USD a month is a realistic goal, even if it is more than you usually manage to do (because of whatever issues) or even if it is more than you can handle long-term.
Or in other words: An ultimate motivation would give you the ability to fully utilize the (mental/physical) resources you have, even if that isn't sustainable long-term, for the sake of completing a short-term goal.

My situation currently is that I work at home (IT) and a few times a month as a furniture mover. Before that I finished school (later than usual) and overworked myself there to the point of physical symptoms (heart and adrenal gland pain and increasingly low blood pressure at rest) and I am very slowly recovering from that. What I realised however is that I am now in a situation in which I am exposed to very very low levels of default stress and anxiety and that things just don't work as they did before in terms of motivation and related. That doesn't mean though that normal motivation does now work. I am pretty much irreversibly conditioned and adapted to high levels of anxiety and stress, and for this and other reasons emotionally numb, pretty similar to alexithymia. I want more money, I have goals in life, but they don't have any emotional impact on me such that it would be motivating in a usable way.

During school time, I was able to overcome most of my problems, just because it had to work and so much pressure was available. I also held a certain type of 'delusional beliefs' or abnormal emotional triggers at that time which I can no longer keep up, because those weren't 'real' in a sense and require a difficult type of delusional/abstract thinking I am too distant from now. It is difficult to describe what I mean by that, it was something I was able to do because of drug/withdrawal experiences earlier in life.
Nonetheless, those beliefs were very important. In terms of motivation, imagine for example you want to do some daily physical exercise. The only rational motivation for this is simply to increase somewhat long term health and maybe your overall wellbeing. At the same time, it costs you considerable time and effort and most importantly immediate discomfort. For several month at least, if not a year, you will get a net negative out of it. It isn't emotionally positive for a very long time no matter how you put it realistically (although after let's say a year of course, you will have benefits which eventually outweigh the time loss after even more years). Why?; simply almost all peoples emotions cannot really grasp anything further away than the day after tomorrow, at least if it is about minor and not extreme or severe things (those things that would cause an equally big emotional reaction as they are distant). Certainly it won't work with month or years and certainly not with things that are too complex and uncertain by default (like most things in life). There is a huge gap between things you can and will realize rationally and how much that can affect you emotionally in ways that are relevant to your actions.
Now what most people do to make it work despite lack of usable motivation is simply lie to themselves and alter their perception and therefore reality about it. They will just add immediate emotional rewards which outweigh the negative. E.g. they say that it is fun to do it and actively ignore the time they lose and only emphasize the gain or even 'invent' new causalities, e.g. that they will feel so much better than before that they will actually gain time by being more productive through increased health. They adapt their reality and perception to fit into a more primitive emotional system of thinking where our motivation mostly depends on. Regardless if what those people belief is 'actually' true or not, it is untrue in me and most likely the overwhelming majority of people who cannot get their asses up to just do some exercises. Altering your reality specifically to achieve a certain goal is an ability not everyone has or can do in most situations. Also you cannot just simply 'pump in' more willpower to achieve such goals, like some people do, if you need it elsewhere in life.
What I meant earlier by delusional beliefs was in essence exactly that kind of alteration of reality. Imagine, you want to do some physical exercise and in order to do it, you are able to truly believe that you will die if you don't do 30 minutes of jogging and 30 minutes of weight lifting a day. That belief, if truly real, would be >99% effective in anyone, although obviously delusional but without any other impact on reality if limited to that situation. Similarly, while jogging imagine you were truly able to believe, just for the time, that you were running away from a lion just around the corner. That would completely maximize the efficiency of what you do. The 'delusional beliefs' I mentioned were more complex and not about dying from lions though, but similar in magnitude.
Willpower surely is another factor, but sheer willpower is very much just a short-term solution and of course constantly requires effort and therefore drains resources you have without any other gain to it.

So my big problem now is, I cannot lie to myself in any way or think irrationally and regular motivators don't work (negative or positive) because I am too numbed down for that or just too different by default. I think I don't have to mention that regular workplaces and too much social contact aren't really good for me either, so not a good option.

From what I know to be possible through the beliefs I was talking about, I have since been looking for something lesser or similar that would work without delusional thinking, but that would have similar or at least considerable effects.

One route to get 'motivation' (it is more a cheat around it) I can think of is obsessions/compulsions. Unfortunately those are too hard to control. I can get easily obsessed about certain women (women with autism, high intelligence, interest in linux, programming, engineering, mathematics, and related), but then there aren't many of those out there and additionally people are easily crept out by obsessive behavior, although it is entirely harmless, if not straight positive because I am willing to share the benefits. Also certain things have to occur to keep the obsessions alive and they are really as specific as mentioned such that they will fail eventually if the specifics are broken. This would however truly be the ultimate motivation to me, it is just that other people are so alienated by the idea that it will probably never work.

Another possibility is a social way, although that particular one is very difficult to realize. I have been thinking about a website in some aspects similar to google+ or facebook, where people could get together and organise projects. It would work specifically to categorize your field of interest and group you with other people who have similar interest. You could then e.g. start a project of opening an online business or writing and selling some software, or just do a GPL project for free. Just as if you were in a company, you could manage deadlines and certain goals you could reach. The website would aim very much at capturing you in necessary organizational structures, making you take the project seriously and it would involve real life resources like money.
I know of nothing alike so far and the big problem with doing projects online with people elsewhere is always that no one takes it seriously, no one is willing to invest neither money nor sufficient amounts of time, people will procrastinate a lot and there is no real authority that could enforce things. Writing such a website would take immense time and effort and then it isn't even certain if a sufficient amount of people would join.


So, those are the options I see for myself. Maybe you have thought about it and have something to share, maybe you can use what I have thought about. In any case, let me know.

Well, for me, let me say this. It's all about self pacing. For me, if I'm doing something self paced, and I genuinely try to keep at it, generally I succeed. But then when others try to make me do things at a pace not at my own, I fail. And other people do not understand this. People will wonder how, say, I'm such a good ice skater, cook, have good vocabulary, etc, and they don't realize how I myself pretty much taught myself those things on my own time. As a comparison, I took a Chinese class and dropped out, simply because the pacing was too fast. I don't do well in a class environment where it's all competitive like that. One counselor (who at this point I can say is well meaning, but completely retarded in her understanding of NVLD/AS, as in she has none) said the reason I dropped out was because Chinese was hard. No. It's not that Chinese was hard, it's that the class put so much anxiety and pressure on me. All the anxiety and pressure was more of a stressor than the actual thing I was doing, thus from the pure anxiety and pressure, of the expectations placed on me, I burnt myself out before I could like...do anything with Chinese.

I feel like I can do anything in the world...if it's at my own pace and there's no pressure. I could probably literally build a rocket and go to the moon if I felt like it, with that caveat. I'm learning now, I have to completely ignore everyone else if I wish to get anything done. It's not about competing. It's about getting your goal done, one way or the other, and getting it done later is better than getting it done never. I'm learning life is an endurance game. Whoever sticks with something longest...wins.

I guess what sorta taught me this about myself, was figure skating. I took up ice skating last year. Initially in hockey skates, just going to public session pretty much for just getting some exercise in. I wasn't really a good skater at all starting out. But, I got better and better, slowly. I eventually spent $60 on my own pair of figure skates, and have been slowly progressing. But, progressing nonetheless. I put LOTS of time into ice skating, usually I skate an hour a day. Arguably, for the amount of time I put into skating, I learn things slower than most people. But, I've gotten myself to the level well above what the general public can do on skates regardless of that point. I can do almost all the 3 turns, mohawks, and waltz jumps. I guess as far as an ultimate goal, though people say it's irrational, I'd like to get to triple jumps. Most people say that's a really unrealistic goal to aim for, but why not? Hell even me doing the 3 turns and waltzes was considered unrealistic. But with skating, nobody pushed me to skate. Some people even discouraged it. So there's nobody pushing me, nobody going "I want you to learn ____ by ______" none of that. It's all entirely at my pace. I also don't even use a coach or take lessons. I ask people for help and to teach me stuff, but that's it. But it's interesting, though, there's good and bad days, but I just go in with the faith that what I want, will come...eventually. And so far, it has, slowly but surely I'm getting better.

So self pacing, I think is the key. Pick a goal, make sure you work towards it, don't get discouraged, and allow yourself enough time to accomplish it. You're only beating yourself.

I think a good article regarding this sorta thing, is an interview with Russian Olympic lifter Vasily Alexeev, I LOVE this article.
http://articles.elitefts.com/training-a ... -alexeyev/

That is interesting, however I cannot relate to it. I don't work at a certain pace, rather just everything is limited by how much I can concentrate at all. The limit where concentration would be saturated is never really approached (It happened on way too much Ritalin though, but almost never under normal circumstances). The more I would sucessfully force or push myself, the more it would work, except of course for physical limits.

The missing key in me however is to overcome that lack of concentration (and one functional method for me would be to do the exact opposite of what you suggest: crank up the pace impossibly high, still get it only partly but much faster and then repeat the process). Concentration is not the same as motivation though. Currently I have those two problems: lack of concentration and lack of motivation. Both are linked to each other.

The situation you described relates more to concentration. If the pace isn't met, you fail to concentrate properly because of anxiety or just because you have difficulties with it. You wouldn't achieve anything however if you had no motivation in the first place, even at perfect pace.

Therefore I first have to solve the motivational problem, before it even makes sense to think about anything else.

On that end, for motivation, I feel like the whole old adage of "Aim for the moon, if you miss you'll land among the stars" is how I approach it. Most people would say it's totally asinine for a 20 year old person, who's not really a natural athlete, to try figure skating. But I did anyway, and did well, despite setbacks, and have high hopes for it. But if you don't have hope you can eventually achieve something, nothing at all will happen. I think the big thing is, your goals must be for you. Not for other people. I find it hard to achieve things simply because other people expect it of me. But if I just want something done for my own sake, it's exponentially easier. But like, now for example, people want me to get a job, and now I'm seeing real reasons why I need a job, but I still only wanna work part time. But before, people were just telling me I needed a job for seemingly the sake of having a job, so I look like I'm a productive member of society or something. But, a job back then wouldn't DO anything for me except really waste my time and burn me out. But now that a job can be used to accomplish some goals of mine, it seems more logical and I can better motivate myself.

So be stupid, be cocky, aim for the highest thing possible. Even if you don't achieve your high aim, you're still not gonna be "bad." I've aimed for triple jumps, but hey, at least I thus far got waltz jumps out of the deal, right? I don't think that's a bad deal.

But I guess you're partially right. Maybe I just have stupid high motivation and just low concentration. Heh.

Thank you for your answer. It is however not what I am looking for. Perhaps this diagram helps:



EDIT: Wrongplanet keeps destroying the link, click here.

EDIT2: Still messing it up, copy&paste URL http://s12.postimage.org/5l2fpu7a3/moti ... iagram.png

I used to use impossible deadlines and stress as motivators too.
I'd start working on a work assignment when I "felt like it" (i.e. had motivation for some reason), and generally on the last day before the deadline I'd do a ten to twelve hour worksession till the job was completed, generally ending well after midnight.

But, like I said in another thread, I've been completely burnt out some years ago when I tripled my workload for a year.

Now what I do is this:
I have this weekplanner whiteboard above my desk/computer monitor, and every sunday I update the dates and write in all the appointments I have for the upcoming week.
On days that allow it -without social situations- I write a two hour work period down.

The key is; set exact dates AND times to start and stop, and just *start* at the specified time.
Energy, concentration etc. will follow. And by not pushing your limits you can do a lot of these short sessions during a week.
And you start because the schedule/whiteboard is King and should be obeyed, not because you have gathered enough willpower or motivation to do so.
Of course *you* fill the board in, in the first place, so ultimately you are the boss. But during the week you will follow the carefully laid out plan and not need motivation to get yourself into gear every single time.

Now I do my job spread over about ten days instead of cramming it all into a few very long days.
This is manageable, easy to do, relieves tons of stress, streamlines my days and is ultimately doable for me for years on end.
It's usefull to place things you like in the planning after stuff that's exhausting.
Then it will start to feel like the unpleasant/hard thing always leads to a satisfying, fun situation straight away (because now it DOES!! !).

On a side note:
I also jot down lots of random stuff on the whiteboard; what to buy at the store tomorrow for instance, but really anything I am scared to forget.
I never forget it anyway, but knowing it's there as a backup really puts my mind at ease and cuts down on needless -energy sucking- worrying about stuff.
Writing things down really does help tons to get it out of your head.

On this... Well, I simply managed to do just this.
I'm now fullblown anorexic, have been for six years straight and am loving it for the most part.
No more being fat.

The only downside is my new psychiatrist demands I stay above BMI 17.8, so I'm always walking this tightrope of being between 62 and 63 KG...
That sort of sucks, but it's easy enough to balance the past few years.
I eat and snack when and what I want and no longer have to be disgusted with my body image, which I'm generally pretty content with.

So, this is a valid way to get motivation. Like you said, it's just hard to control the compulsion/obsession at times, but I've found in the long run it gets very easy.

Thanks for the reply. I also used a schedule to determine things, but it won't really work anymore. If the motivation isn't there, concentration is too low and I just produce gibberish. It is like just forcing myself to do stuff which was the first thing I tried and also the thing that produces the worst results. If I force myself in a productive way (meaning I generate enormous amounts of stress to overcome the concentration limit at any cost), it is extremely exhausting and I cannot keep it up for long.

I am not sure about the beliefs. What I noticed is that I have very rational doubts about them, which are emotionally amplified because they caused me a lot of stress. I might have stumbled upon something today mentally, that would allow me to reenable some, but I am not sure. Fudging with those things is extremely difficult and uncertain and it takes days of just doing nothing useful but thinking randomly and tapping in the darkness.

Ultimately, motivation has to come from some faith that what you are doing is worthwhile. For some people this is belief in God(s), for others a similar but more spiritual holistic idea, for others they just really want to impress everyone (sexually, socially), others like the idea of owning stuff, others like to see what all they can do, and I'm sure there are others, and many people have some combination.

It seems to me that faith is not rational or irrational, it just is. As far as where it comes from, that's a matter of faith I believe that motivation is simply part of the universe's inherent design, because without it nothing would happen, and that is simply undesirable.

It's ego-strength. Self-strength = motivation, discipline. Athletes push themselves but also they fuel their bodies. if I may pose a theory(sort of): Doing exactly what you want to do fuels your ego-strength. If you're allowed to do what you want and you're around those who accept you or you're alone, this gives ego-strength and builds the reserve. But, if you need to meet the demands of reality that are against your immediate wishes it draws from your fuel reserve for your ego-strength. If you hate to brush your teeth but you make yourself do it (emotional trickery, bribery of self) you deplete your reserves. We only have so much energy for our daily tasks. If you need motivation but you've had to do a lot of errands or making other people happy, you will have less.

So you must fuel the ego to have motivation, one does not draw water from a dry well....

Ego defined as the executive control center of the brain, a construct of the psyche or the sense of self, take your pick, I do not mean Freud's ego, however.

The only way I know of to increase ego-strength without giving into our desires is meditation. This will give mind-power with which you can utilize to motivate you toward your goals.

Sorry if this doesn't make sense. It's hard to find words to use for concepts like this.