James Holmes may have Aspergers?

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Uhh the only problem with that is psychopath is not an actual diagnoses...the closest disorder to psychopathy would be Anti-Social PD, but most people with that disorder don't go around shooting people either. Also considering aspergers is a type of autism I am skeptical that people with autism are more likely than other people with autism to commit crimes based on having autism.

Great, so no sense in even fighting the stigma then I suppose.

Normal people don't usually go on shooting sprees, but they can be pushed to that extreme. Also most 'psychopaths' are normal and from what I hear get along in life just fine......except for the ones who end up showing their true nature rather than just using it to succeed in business or whatever.

I also remember that he had a poster in his room of a song called "soldiers of misfortune" (by a band called Sacrifice) and for him the lyrics probably really did have a literal meaning:

Lyrics

I actually haven't read the lyrics until now and they are heavily centered on the theme of going insane.

He could've been delusional. Being delusional you can still be high-functioning and you can put all your efforts into your delusion. Or it is something like this: source.

I meant to say a study pointed out people with autism are less likely than normal people to commit crime but forgot the word "less". The difference is very small though and a different study doesn't show any differences except a higher prevalence of arson but the most important conclusion is that we aren't any more likely to do bad things than NT's.

About psychopathy, it can be diagnosed with the Psychopathy Checklist, Revised (PCL-R) which was developed by a man called Robert Hare who owns full rights to the use of the test, which is why it's not included in the DSM-IV (I don't know about the new version). It's true that there's a partial overlap with ASPD, about one third of people with ASPD would qualify as a psychopath.

Psychopathy is an actual diagnosis. Discussion of its existence as a diagnostic entity goes back to Hervey Cleckley's book The Mask of Sanity originally published in 1941, and updated later. It's not a diagnosis in the DSM-IV, however this is not the same as not being an actual diagnosis. This tool - the psychopathy checklist-revised - was created by Robert Hare as a means to identify psychopathy in people.

ASPD is not psychopathy, although most psychopaths are diagnosable with ASPD. Not everyone who is diagnosed with it is a psychopath.

Anyway, most psychopaths don't go around shooting people, but psychopaths are significantly more likely to engage in violent behavior than most people.

Last edited by Verdandi on 24 Jul 2012, 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

You need to use a lot of qualifiers to make that claim.



Psychopaths aren't normal. Those who aren't violent don't really use their nature to succeed in business so much as they use it to succeed at the expense of others, via dishonesty, cheating, and manipulation. They do not view the world like other people and I would go so far as to say that in some ways their perspective (from what I have read) is likely more removed from "normal" than autistic people are, although they have a much better time adapting to "normalcy" to some degree.

Psychopathy was an actual diagnoses, but not anymore.....at best its mostly a confusing term nowdays. Though I'd say someone who is a psychopath in the traditional sense would be more likely to hurt others than a non-psychopath. However evidence points to most who could be considered 'psychopaths' living a normal life.

Well yeah that is more or less what I meant, but in the world of corporate america those seem to be desired traits...hell even in politics that seems a desired quality just look at how all the presidential candidates try to make the opposition look bad for their own personal gain. Also maybe you and I define normal differently what I see as normal would be someone who functions well in society and follows the majority of social norms. Many psychopaths fit in that category, its not like one has to be a kind caring person to get buy in this society you know.

From everything I heard regarding the shooter, the only basis people have been making for claiming he has an ASD is his apparent "fixation on weapons," (the words of a local sporting goods store owner who claims he was eyeballing the guns but never purchased any from him) particularly firearms and explosives. According to the reports, he seemed to have a knack for booby-traps, which explains his apartment room. Many reports regarding police interaction with the shooter and witnesses at his hearing made reference to his facial expression (particularly his eyes) and demeanor, which most in the peanut gallery referred to as "aspie eyes." These factors aren't enough to make a definitive statement regarding his neurological or mental condition and even in totality cannot be utilized to establish diagnostic status. Typical media response (along with the indirect goth references that surfaced after a person who knew him claimed he "changed" after hanging out with kids who "wore trenchcoats" and a neighbor's description of the type of music blaring from his room). They did the same thing after Columbine and they will continue to do so.

Well I see kind of a cycle, I still don't think having a mental illness or not determines whether or not one is capable of such a horrid thing. But at the same time when the media spreads around these sterotypes which only serve to further alienate people who already feel that way...I feel that could be a factor in the cases where a mentally ill person does resort to something like that. I mean its hard to say with this guy if he was just being a sadistic psychopath or if something else was going on since there is only limited knowledge out.

But I think trying to stereotype certain groups of people as potential mass shooters, is a big mistake....that only serves as another factor for future shootings. From personal experience the days and months following the shooting in which a student was killed at my highschool were hell for me........you'd think it would have brought 'everyone' closer together but even after that people treated me like 'the outcast' and if anything I faced even further ostracism. At the time I had an ongoing intrest about WW2 and the Nazis....so I ended up obsessing so much over that to forget how I felt at school I ended up playing with the idea of being a nazi(I never believed it, it was just a way for me to feel tough like I didn't need anyones help or support). Luckily I didn't go around telling people this or talking about it to them but even so eventually it concerned my brother so he told my mom and long story short I ended up snapping out of it. So to me that gives the impression the further you alienate people especially after things like that the harder it is for that person not to become filled with hate.

note* I hope no one judges me too harshly for that , I hardly tell anyone in real life about that little phase of my life because yes I am ashamed of it.

Er...no, I don't think it should matter. He is accountable for his own actions. This was a premeditated attack on innocent people, so it's not like he didn't know what he was doing. And even if people start vilifying us, why should it matter? They'd be dumbasses if they did, considering that most people on the spectrum are law abiding citizens and tend to have a strong sense of morality and an obligation to their fellow person. In other words, most of us would be Batman if we could be (though I'd rather be Spiderman, even though he's from Marvel).

I know that stigma is a problem, but I'm not going to let bother me. Haters gonna hate.

Honestly, I have read a lot about the shooter, and there are many things that point to ASD for him. He was highly intelligent. Old high school friends, colleagues and associates described him as introverted, shy, socially off. He also seemed to have a fixation with Batman, and as another poster mentioned, he was able to hyperfocus on building all of those bombs. Also, all of the people in his apartment said that no one knew him, that he would not make eye contact with anyone when he passed them in the hall. He also appeared very awkward in that video of him when he was making a presentation when he was 18.

I don't think that having AS makes someone a potential killer. I believe in this case, the fact that he was socially isolated, it made it harder for him to cope with his failings. He didn't have a network in place to help him cope with all that he was going through, so maybe in that sense he started to slip from reality. If he does in fact have AS, I do not think that in and of itself caused him to become a mass murderer. It almost seems like he was a genius who crossed over the line into insanity.

Plus, most of the stories I have read, the media has not really mentioned AS. It is mainly just speculation by different people such as our group-----

But was he really socially isolated? Look at this article.
This does not sound completely isolated, does it?
People who are part of a clique are not always equally integrated and when their mutual paths split with the course of time, they don't see each other or talk to each other like before.
There was a recent article about his profile at adultfriendfinder which stated that he tried to meet up with some women but apparently did not want anything sexual, instead he wanted "to chat". If that's true....that's strange and I don't mean the desire to talk to someone but to make a profile at this kind of site with another kind of aim.

well, of course we, as a group, will shy away from indicting him based on AS.
We live with this, and we know it's not an escalator to mass murder.

The problem is that if he does get the dx of Asperger's or HFA, then the chatterbox talking heads like Joe Scarborough are going to cram it down our collective throat, and then when Asperger's disappears into DSM V, we'll have a minefield of presuppositions about who we are.

"Oh, that guy has Asperger's. You know, like Cho and Holmes."

So, it's really irrelevant what we want to argue right now, because his dx is going to hinge the entire tone of the discussion for Asperger's for the next 10 years or so. Except for all the people who believe in MK Ultra and whatnot.