Asperger Syndrome and Culture?

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First off I need to say that I am a Chinese living in Singapore. I also believe that all cultures are equally valid and I do not mean to criticise any aspect of any culture. However, what I want to talk about is that this does not mean all personality types will thrive equally well in all cultures, and that different cultures favour different personality traits.

I was reading this book called the Geography Of Thought which details the psychological differences between Asians(By Asians the author really means Chinese, Japanese and Korean) and Westerners(which means American and English). The author argues that these differences are intrinsic, and is against the idea of a Tabula Rasa. Here's a quick rundown on what was said:

-Asians tend to percieve holistically while Westerners tend to remember what stands out.

-In Asian culture, it is seen as rude to criticise. Whenever disagreements in ideals break out, a compromise will be sought out. The harmony of community is put over the individual. However, in Western culture, ideals are argued out using logic, with a definite winner and loser. Also, individuality and choice are highly values in Western culture.

-Asians find less beauty in being able to understand something, preferring to just "let it be". While Westerners prefer meaning. Once Asians discover regularity in something, it loses its novelty and thus they lose interest in it. It was the Greeks who made the most advancement in philosophy and science, while the genius of the Chinese stems from their practicality, with inventions such as gunpowder (being the older of the two cultures helps, too).

-When communicating, Asians tend to be more indirect, while Westerners choose to be more straightforward. Social skills are highly valued in Asian society.

Well, there are a couple more things being said, but my point is that from this, it seems like if you are AS and born in China or Japan, good luck to you. Right now I wonder that living in a largely Chinese society, I have suffered more, due to my poor social skills, my attention to detail, and my argumentative nature.

Now I understand that this book is not the most factual out there, and that I also might have personal biases, being that I have never met another ASer or HFAer, no less a western one, and also that I might be having "grass is greener on the other side" thoughts.

My experience is that teenage social rules in Singapore seem very stringent. The "in-crowd" person is one who looks good, follows trends (right now for guys it seems to be the 'spiky hair' look), listens to the correct kind of music (whatever is advertised on TV), good at sports and be outgoing/extroverted (When someone calls you an "introvert" in Singapore, it is meant as an insult). In addition, you have to do well in your studies, although this is less important. Anyone not fitting in is considered an outcast. Thus in Singapore there is only one gigantic homogenous group, and everyone else is labeled an outcast. From my understanding of Western teenagers, there are a variety of subcultures ranging from jocks, preps, nerds, gangstas, punks, goths etc.

Another thing in my years in secondary school, my results were only poor to average. This was partly because I fell into depression for about 2 years, but also that there was a lot of emphasis placed on group projects and extra curricular activities. To top that off, before leaving school everyone of us had to write testimonies about our peers. These testimonies will follow you for the rest of your life and arguably the thing that future employers pay the most attention to.

In addition, while my immediate family has been very tolerant of my difficulties, my extended family is very traditional and I feel the pressure of living up to their expectations.

The reason, I think, why I have never heard of many diagnosed cases of mental conditions in Asia is due to the fact that it will ruin the reputation of the parents. Also, traditional Chinese are very staunch believers of "nothing cannot be solved without some good ol' fashioned discipline." This can lead to the parents being very insensitive to an autistic childs needs. Please take note of a recent topic in our forums by 'AsianMom', saying that she punishes her child for engaging in self stimulatory behavior. Being viewed in a negative light is considered shameful to the Chinese, hence the Chinese word for shame being "diu lian" (丢脸） literally meaning, "throwing away ones reputation."

Please understand that it is not that I am unhappy with being a Chinese, neither am I saying that Chinese culture is inferior. All I am wanting to find out is whether different cultures makes AS any more or less of a disability.

Hmm, very interesting. I'm gonna think about that.

I have had similar thoughts when I read a book on Swiss culture called "Beyond Chocolate". It definitely showed that some aspects really are things that just don't stand out as much, for example disliking smalltalk is "normal" there (within limits), keeping your distance etc. (altho people STARE at you there it is HORRIBLE!! !).

It did explain why in Switzerland and to some degree Germany, the people diagnosed with AS seem to be far more severely affected than in the US (where things are so much more superficial, so much importance is put on surface sociability, looks, superficial chatter, showering X times a day, wearing prim new clothes to school every day [lest one is accused of sleeping around], being the poplar smarmy cheesy cheerleader or sporty type etc. etc.).

What I mean is that people there usually still are quite "obviously" autistic to some degree if they get diagnosed in adulthood, many do not live independently and have quite severe problems with language and communication. Because people generally are more reserved, more detail-oriented, emotionally distant etc. it takes a lot more "autism" to stand out from the background.

I did still stand out for being a rigorous literal "rule follower", not making communication, not showing emotion etc. but it definitely was far less than I would have done elsewhere. It was more the more impulsive things I said and did, and my inability to keep clean, tidy and organised, that stood out whereas here in the UK I stand out as being "anal" about these things!

I also think that here in the UK perhaps there is a trend to base diagnosis more on behavioural problems than elsewhere, because here a certain level of eccentricity is "expected" (whereas for example in Switzerland or the US, conformity is more expected, albeit completely different kinds of conformity - in Switzerland it is more the law-abiding, genuine, conscientious kind, people regard a lot of things as "common sense" such as not littering, being on time etc.) so there needs to be something more extreme for a person to stand out.

I'd agree that Singapore must be one of the worst countries to live for AS people. I think some of the ideas you quote from that book are just western cliches about Asians though. Japan would be pretty bad too, I imagine, heh or Korea, bloodlines are such a big deal in those countries. They are in the west too, but in multicultural countries, no-one is 'pure' so...what can they say.

I'm in Australia and the difference between Sydney, where I spent most of my life and other state capitals is very noticeable. The smaller cities are a lot more tolerant and easy going than Sydney, probably because real-estate is (was) cheaper and therefore the life is easier. Maybe you should think about making your home in Perth eventually, it's not tooo far from family, just far enough!

I personally that the reaction to Asperger's is not governed by the culture, but by the individual people themselves rather than the whole society. Overall though, most people appear to persecute AS due to being ignorant.

Hmm..I wonder about Switzerland. Wasn't there a statistic a while back, showing that there were a significant portion of Swiss who could be labeled with any of the autism spectrum disorders?

I wonder why you say that a person with AS will suffer more under the Swiss. It seems like Switzerland favours a very obsessive type of worker. In place of a collage, they go to vocational institutes where they learn a subject of interest. Although Singapore always claimed they wanted to emulate the Swiss, the education system here is very opposite, with aims of making people "Well rounded" and "allowing them to sample a bit of everything." Finding a niche is discouraged in Singapore.

As I understand it, plenty of Sinagporeans go to Austrailia in search of a better life. A while back the government criticised such people (calling them quitters) but thats another story. There is plenty of stigma against Singaporeans who are "western-ized". They are called "bananas", yellow on the outside, white on the inside. Its equivalent to calling someone in the US a "chigger" or a "wapanese".

As for cliches and stereotypes in the book, I do believe that while the author may be biased towards the eastern ways of thinking (for political correctness or to sit well with the Japanophiles, I don't know), he did not really stereotype by saying "All Asian people are X and all Western people are Y." It was clear that he is stating these qualities in a very general sense.

IMO there are 2 common cliches, both portraying portraying the east and west as diametrically opposite:

1) Uniformed, suppressed, conforming Asians VS rugged, individualistic Westerners.

2)Loud, boorish, agressive Westerners VS spiritual and peaceful Asians.

Thankfully, this book never really confirmed either one. What is interesting to note, however, is that little mention was made of the Malays, Indonesian and other non Japanese/Korean/Chinese Asian races, and similarly, the Aztecs and Mayan in the West.

Another one thing I find interesting, was that for a very long time, there was no equivalent to the word "freedom" in the Chinese language. The closest I can think of is 自由 which really means "carefree" more than anything. Perhaps this could be related to the absense of an anti establishment, underground music scene in Asia? So far I have not come across an Asian equivalent of punk music, or prog rock.

I would be very interested to see that - any idea whereabouts it was? (Online, newspaper etc.)

The only thing I do remember was that there was an article about how even severely autistic children are still not diagnosed as autistic in Switzerland and how abysmal the state of recognition and awareness still is compared with neighbouring European countries. http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo. ... id=5098113


That is not what I meant to say - more that, to stand out as autistic or AS, in Switzerland only the more severe cases seem to even be considered as such because the "norm" is closer to autistic personality traits to start with.
(There are far less people diagnosed there - I was diagnosed in the UK btw - but those that are seem more severe)


Yes I think they are only looking at some aspects of Swiss mentality and they are ignoring the aspects that make it work there (i.e. conscientious nature can't be forced, people need a certain amount of individual liberties in order to balance that nature etc.)

I agree with the Swiss and the Singapore governments partially in different ways. It is good to be well rounded and know a bit about everything, but it is also useful to have a specialist subject so that you can succeed and go on Mastermind.

I find that, in spite of all the emphasis historically and stereotypically on individualism in the US, conformity is really a key value. This conformity can be especially painful for Aspies, since they are by definition different. I do not know about other cultures, but certain subcultures in the US have no real problem with eccentricities (academic circles, artistic groups).

Ah but you can learn about that outside of school can't you? I mean something you REALLY care about, you don't want to share that in school, you want to be able to enjoy it privately.

And the more things you get to learn about in school, the more you have to pick from and expand on privately, and then after college, at university

I'm not sure...I had always felt that Asian culture woudl be easier on an aspie than American!

It seemed to me that there would be less petty and trivial socializing, and that attention to detail, perfectionsim, and doing well in book subjects would be rewarded.

I think there is less eye contact and less touching, and from what I can tell, less loudly blaring perfumes (the ones here in the U.S. soemtimes make me physically ill, and they are almost always artificial). Seems like solitude and quietness would have more value there. Here, if you're a loner, it implies that you are very antisocial, hate people, and are possibly dangerous. Quiet and peace aren't very valued, Americans tend to want some sort of noise going all the time.

My grandma is Filipino, though. She always put a lot of emphasis on appearance, and "what will people think!" and didn't leave me a lot of choice as far as personal style in clothes. She would get impatient with me a lot because she didn't understand me. On the other hand, her ways of showing affection were more comfortable for me than those of my western family members. She never gave me sloppy smooshy kisses. Instead, she would pat my cheek softly or nuzzle my hair and make soft Hmmm-hmmm-hmmm....sounds and tell me that I was a good girl. This was a lot more comforting than what the rest of my family displayed, and I now relate to my children in that way, too. I alway wanted to move to the Philipines, I thought I'd be happier there!

Culture is good for us. I find it interesting that there are a lot of foreign-born people who post to this forum, like British people, and Australians. I have no idea why it is that a lot of British people have AS. I'm not trying to make a generalization, just an observation.

Radiohead,

I'm actually from Singapore as well (though now temporarily spared from having to live there) and totally empathise with the special difficulties of living in an ultra-conformist society. I had sh*tloads of problems putting up with the traditionalist expectations of my parents; I can imagine how much worse it'll be for someone who's "failed" academically (from the S'porean point of view). And I agree that mental problems tend to be diagnosed less frequently because the parents are afraid of their reputation. In general S'porean parents treat their offspring as trophies or badges of achievement; it is all about being perceived to have had "successful" children rather than about having happy children. I have never told my family that I suspect I have AS because they would simply get angry at the very suggestion and refuse to accept that possibility.

RadioHead

First an apology for totally not getting what you were talking about when you brought this up in chat room.

Secondly a thankyou for presenting this differing perspective. I never thought of it like what you have presented. I am thankful for the clearer understanding of how things are from a different cultures point of view.

Especially considering the range of individuals from different countries here.

I should think that while each culture is different and may in some respects not create as much of a problem in certain aspects for the ASer as perhaps another culture, one also must realize that humans are humans. And while individuality in the US seems to be a popular thing and that there are many diverse groups from which to choose to try and fit in, humans are still humans and require homogeneity from everyone. Poor social skills, whether or not individuality is more accepted in that particular culture, are still the same deficit.

So, while being "different" in the Western culture is more acceptable, there is still as much bullying, still as many outcast, loner ASers as I should think there are in every culture. Humans are humans, and whether they profess they accept differences, differences from themselves are RARELY accepted. I think there are more cliques in number in the social structure of Western culture but these contain no less stringent rules of homogeneity. Goths are goths, prepi's are always prepi's, etc..

From an article I read and agree with in Discovery Magazine, humans function in similar ways as all animals, and instinctually fear a "stranger"-- whether or not this stranger comes from another culture or from within their own.

Wowbagger. I must say that I am very happy to be able to find another Singaporean on this forum. For a long while I thought I was the only one here.

Yes, I agree that Singaporean mentality is that parents tend to treat their children as an extension of themselves. How is it like in Chicago? Care to give your perspective to someone who has never worked outside the country? Like I said, I might just be having a case of "the grass is greener on the other side."

In the case of travial socializing, I'm sure you are aware of the stereotype of the shallow chinese/japanese girl who spends way too much time on their cell phone. While stereotypes are never 100% true, keep in mind that they come from somewhere and have a basis in reality.

The only thing worse than Asian teenage society is Asian teenage society coupled with an awareness of Western teenage trends. Things get very, very vacuous.

My understanding of teenage culture in America/UK that there is a huge subculture, usually the jocks and preps, where all the selfless mindless conformist drones flock to, then there are the smaller subcultures like nerd, goth and punk, which are constantly harrased by the big group. These smaller subcultures are not too particular about conformity, but you must hold a similiar interest. I for one found myself very surprised reading on another message board that nerds and punks tend to get along. Although I suspect the nerds in question were more of the hacker-ish types rather than the teacher's pets.

As for attention to detail, in subjects thaught in school, there is a penalty known as "excess denied", meaning you actually lose marks for over-elaboration on a report. Despite my difficulties in an education system completely tailored towards superficiality, I managed to pull of average results in the GCE O levels. I think its got to do with the fact that it was a UK examination and that it was individual work. At present I am enrolling in Ngee Ann Polytechnic.