Page 2 of 10 [ 159 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 10  Next

Wandering_Stranger
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Apr 2012
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,261

10 Aug 2013, 2:09 pm

I have friends with children on the spectrum who don't want a cure. Their argument being (which I agree with) that it'll change the child's personality; but no-one knows how their personality will change. Which is why I don't want a cure.

I have also come across parents who get a diagnosis for their child and then want benefits, etc. The first thing they say is "my child has now been diagnosed with Autism. What am I entitled to?" But you don't get benefits just because you have Autism - you either have to be unable to work or care and /or mobility needs due to having a disability. I did come across someone who was accused of wanting a diagnosis for her daughter so she could get benefits for her. That's actually the impression I get too - she thinks her 2 year old son is on the spectrum and by getting benefits for him, she won't have to work.

Quote:
And you know what? If I do decide to go ahead and claim PIP to help supplement the low wage I'm on


Which isn't what PIP is for. And what would happen if you didn't have AS and were on a low wage? You wouldn't be able to claim disability benefits to top up your wage. And rightly so - it's for the extra costs incurred by having a disability.



nuttyengineer
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 22 Oct 2012
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 279
Location: United States

10 Aug 2013, 2:12 pm

I was diagnosed with ASD about a month ago as an adult, mainly for closure and to make sure that I didn't have something else.

I have since gone and talked to disability services at my University for an accommodation that will allow me to communicate better with my adviser regarding the research that I am working on. Not because I feel entitled to that accommodation, but because I genuinely want to be able to improve the work that I'm doing. In fact, I felt embarrassed as hell for even asking.

If I ever try to use my ASD diagnosis to gain something or as an excuse for getting out of something, I give the people in my life permission to slap me upside the head.


_________________
"Success is not the absence of failure, it is the persistence through failure."


grahamguitarman
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 458

10 Aug 2013, 2:47 pm

Wandering_Stranger wrote:
Quote:
And you know what? If I do decide to go ahead and claim PIP to help supplement the low wage I'm on


Which isn't what PIP is for. And what would happen if you didn't have AS and were on a low wage? You wouldn't be able to claim disability benefits to top up your wage. And rightly so - it's for the extra costs incurred by having a disability.


I should have clarified what I meant, I was in indignant mode and typed that bit a bit too quickly as an aside. I know its not a top up for my wages, and TBH that is not how I meant it to come out.

What I kinda meant was that I struggle with the extra expenses of being ASD because I'm on such a low wage. My advocate is trying to get me to claim for PIP because there are a lot of expenses that I simply cannot afford to finance due to my low income. For one example, I cannot drive due to my ASD (or more precisely because of my cognitive processing delay) so I have to rely on public transport. This in turn generates huge amounts of stress for me as I find noisy crowded busses hard to cope with - I'll even get off the bus sometimes because it becomes too overwhelming 8O

Ideally I would use a taxi instead - but I cannot justify that sort of expense on my low wage.

My son gets mobility allowance for the exact same reason BTW - because he can't cope with public transport and therefore needs to be taken around by taxi.

So I was told that the PIP would help to pay for those sort of things, making my life with ASD a bit easier to cope with. There are other examples she used as well but my memory is quite poor and I can't remember them all.

As I said in my post, I'm not even sure I want to go ahead, because it seems strange to me to do so. I really don't feel disabled, just a bit socially inadequate and a bit phobic about being around too many people. And I like the independence being self employed gives me - so do I sacrifice part of that independence in order to make my quality of life a bit better?

It's a moral struggle I'm having difficulty with, even though I don't feel embarrassed about getting DLA for my son. Which by the way we spend entirely on his needs, not on ourselves. I really don't agree with the idea that someone should use their child's disability to avoid working for a living.


_________________
Autistic dad to an autistic boy and loving it - its always fun in our house :)

I have Autism. My communication difficulties mean that I sometimes get words wrong, that what I mean is not what comes out.


Wandering_Stranger
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Apr 2012
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,261

10 Aug 2013, 2:58 pm

Quote:
I really don't agree with the idea that someone should use their child's disability to avoid working for a living.


I don't either. I do understand people saying they can't work (but would love to) because of their child's disability. (because it's not possible to work during the day if you're up for most of the night with your child) But do think it's wrong to use it as an excuse not to work.



cubedemon6073
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Nov 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,953

10 Aug 2013, 2:59 pm

Thelibrarian wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
Thelibrarian wrote:
Ettina wrote:
And I think everyone is entitled to free stuff. In my opinion, a good society is one that takes care of their citizens. Basic needs should never be earned. Food, health care, housing - those should be available to everyone, no matter their abilities or economic status.


Pray tell, if everyone is entitled to "free stuff", and no one should ever have to provide for their own basic needs, just who is going to pay for it all?


Thelibrarian, Who is paying for all of our Military ventures and the war on terror? How are we able to afford having military bases all over the world? How can we afford the war on terror? Why can't our society afford to take care of everyone's basic needs but we can afford our Military ventures and the war on terror?


Our tax dollars--as well as the Chinese who lend us money--are paying for our ventures in the so-called war on terror, as well as every other government service. Since those tax dollars were taken from somebody who earned them, shouldn't they have a say in where their money goes? Or should people who don't earn anything have the right to confiscate the property of those who do work hard?


What you just asked came from left field. What I am asking is if we can't afford to pay for x then how is it possible for us to afford to pay for y? Your logic comes across to me as inconsistent and therefore I do not grasp what you're saying.

if a then b.
a
b

You're saying ~b. Why? How do you get ~b?

Let's look at your questions. Here is my response. How do any of us truthfully have a true say in where our money goes whether we earn our own money or we do not? Do we truthfully have a say or is it the illusion of say? If 4 wolves and a sheep vote on what is for dinner then does the sheep truthfully have a say in what is for dinner?



Thelibrarian
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Aug 2012
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,948
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas

10 Aug 2013, 3:09 pm

What you just asked came from left field. What I am asking is if we can't afford to pay for x then how is it possible for us to afford to pay for y? Your logic comes across to me as inconsistent and therefore I do not grasp what you're saying.

if a then b.
a
b

You're saying ~b. Why? How do you get ~b?

Well, coming from "left field" I say we can't afford any of it. As far as your logic goes, you need to do some more work, as you're assuming a hypothetical instead of a disjunctive or conjunctive.

Let's look at your questions. Here is my response. How do any of us truthfully have a true say in where our money goes whether we earn our own money or we do not? Do we truthfully have a say or is it the illusion of say? If 4 wolves and a sheep vote on what is for dinner then does the sheep truthfully have a say in what is for dinner?

As far as your wolf/sheep analogy goes, would it really be better if the sheep determines what is for dinner for the four wolves? And if so, how is that different than tyranny?



Thelibrarian
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Aug 2012
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,948
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas

10 Aug 2013, 3:10 pm

What you just asked came from left field. What I am asking is if we can't afford to pay for x then how is it possible for us to afford to pay for y? Your logic comes across to me as inconsistent and therefore I do not grasp what you're saying.

if a then b.
a
b

You're saying ~b. Why? How do you get ~b?

Well, coming from "left field" I say we can't afford any of it. As far as your logic goes, you need to do some more work, as you're assuming a hypothetical instead of a disjunctive or conjunctive.

Let's look at your questions. Here is my response. How do any of us truthfully have a true say in where our money goes whether we earn our own money or we do not? Do we truthfully have a say or is it the illusion of say? If 4 wolves and a sheep vote on what is for dinner then does the sheep truthfully have a say in what is for dinner?

As far as your wolf/sheep analogy goes, would it really be better if the sheep determines what is for dinner for the four wolves? And if so, how is that different than tyranny?



grahamguitarman
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 458

10 Aug 2013, 3:18 pm

Wandering_Stranger wrote:
Quote:
I really don't agree with the idea that someone should use their child's disability to avoid working for a living.


I don't either. I do understand people saying they can't work (but would love to) because of their child's disability. (because it's not possible to work during the day if you're up for most of the night with your child) But do think it's wrong to use it as an excuse not to work.


Yeah thats the difference isn't it, some people hate not being able to work because caring for a disabled child is a full time job. Some people see that and think 'hey this is a good way to get out of having to work'. I've worked for a good portion of my life, and the periods where I was unemployed were difficult for me because I lost my self esteem. I'm also ADHD so hate being inactive anyway!


_________________
Autistic dad to an autistic boy and loving it - its always fun in our house :)

I have Autism. My communication difficulties mean that I sometimes get words wrong, that what I mean is not what comes out.


Willard
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,647

10 Aug 2013, 3:40 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
I've noticed a difference in the attitude of most parents of kids with autism, as well as a few adults with autism, and a great many adults with autism.

While the former is very interested in finding ways to improve autistic symptoms and improve lives, the latter typically is not interested in self-improvement and just believes that society owes them free stuff. "We don't want treatment; we don't care about self-improvement; we just want free stuff" -- typical attitude on Aspies for Freedom.

Why is this?


I don't know where you're getting your impression, I haven't seen anyone on WP, where there are PLENTY of autistic adults, clamoring for "free stuff."

Those of us who were undiagnosed until middle age have spent many years slogging our way through the world, as best we could, often unable to hold the same job for more than a year or two at a time, getting fired repeatedly and then dusting ourselves off and diving back into the fray, because we had no alternative. Once you reach the age of 50 in today's society, you're not even considered eligible for hiring anymore. At that point, in the US, an official diagnosis can help you gain Disability access to the Social Security you've been paying into your entire adult life, which is a tiny, bare bones stipend, but at least some small safety net in return for having stayed in the trenches for decades carrying an invisible handicap. Living on Ramen noodles and hot dogs is hardly what I'd consider getting "free stuff."

If we seem less gung-ho about "improving Autistic symptoms," maybe our age ought to tell YOU starry-eyed youngsters something about "improving Autistic symptoms" - which is to say, it can't be done. I know that statement will raise a lot of argument, but in my experience, all the "Behavior Therapy" I had forced on me over the years by well-meaning parents did absolutely NOTHING to alleviate my Autistic Symptoms. It often made me miserably unhappy by destroying my self esteem and making me feel like a loser for being unacceptably different, but it was no kind of a cure.

I developed coping mechanisms to fake my way through the NT world, but my social skills were always deficient and still are; my processing problems never disappeared, my anxiety and panic attacks never went away (or even declined), nor did my chronic depression. Its a handicap and there's no cure. You can run with a club foot, but don't expect to medal in the Olympics.

Personally, I think the level of function peaks somewhere around the mid 30s and begins to gradually decline after that. That may be true to varying degrees with all humans, but as an Autistic, my ability to cope in the NT world definitely ran an arc with a clear peak period and has been slowly dropping off since.

So I'm not a huge proponent of "therapies" - I think you should teach kids the traditional rules of social etiquette, with Autistic kids it may take more reminders and repetition, but that's the best you can do. You can't make them more outgoing, you can't make their brains process sensory stimuli any more efficiently - its the way they're made and you can't change it. You may teach them to pretend, but that does nothing to change the way their brain synapses are firing, and forcing someone to playact constantly is psychological torture.



babybird
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 62,501
Location: UK

10 Aug 2013, 3:41 pm

This debate seems to have got off the ground.


_________________
We have existence


KateGladstone
Hummingbird
Hummingbird

User avatar

Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Gender: Female
Posts: 19
Location: Albany, NY

10 Aug 2013, 4:00 pm

I seldom post here, but this issue moves me to do so.
I'm wondering what you'd think of the essay at the following link, which touches on these matters:

http://www.tonyattwood.com.au/index.php ... Itemid=722


_________________
Don't believe everything you think ...


Rascal77s
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Nov 2011
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,725

10 Aug 2013, 4:00 pm

I don't know what "free stuff" is. You mean like free food? Or maybe free money that gives them an income 65% below the official poverty level? or maybe you mean free health care that they wouldn't otherwise be able to afford and/or qualify for because of pre-existing conditions? Or maybe free tuition to help them get a job? perhaps a free housing voucher that they've been on a waiting list for 10 years to get? I haven't met anyone with ASD asking for 60" TVs, cars, and all expense paid vacations. Most people who get "free stuff" do not have ASD.



babybird
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 62,501
Location: UK

10 Aug 2013, 4:02 pm

I thought it meant just freebees like what you get from work.


_________________
We have existence


Rascal77s
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Nov 2011
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,725

10 Aug 2013, 4:19 pm

KateGladstone wrote:
I seldom post here, but this issue moves me to do so.
I'm wondering what you'd think of the essay at the following link, which touches on these matters:

http://www.tonyattwood.com.au/index.php ... Itemid=722


Sure there are people like that, but there are also people who follow guidelines, are reasonable, want to improve their lives but are still denied what they are entitled to under law. Yes this woman met someone who wanted to milk the radio but does describe a majority of the 70% of people on the spectrum who are unemployed? I don't think so.



savvyidentity
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 15 Jul 2013
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 450

10 Aug 2013, 4:29 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
I've noticed a difference in the attitude of most parents of kids with autism, as well as a few adults with autism, and a great many adults with autism.

While the former is very interested in finding ways to improve autistic symptoms and improve lives, the latter typically is not interested in self-improvement and just believes that society owes them free stuff. "We don't want treatment; we don't care about self-improvement; we just want free stuff" -- typical attitude on Aspies for Freedom.

Why is this?


I don't know "aspies for freedom", but what if "free stuff" is about self improvement and treatment? In that case there is a lot of help and support for those under 25 (by some organisations dealing with special needs) and even more for those under 18, why not adults? Is free stuff meaning monetary gain? You're not that clear here and I think the former of what I mention is an acceptable goal that would improve society.

For adults with autism, as far as I know there is nowhere to go to get support and learn skills that you know those diagnosed younger got. Not everything can be learned in a book because society believes we should know all that by now. So yeah, "free stuff" could easily translate to free self improvement, free support to being indepedent (including having a job and not relying on government funds), free support to learn how to cope in life like paying bills and managing money so nobody has to do this for you.

Also, this looks like yet another thread about why one group of people are "entitled". Let's stop throwing that around because it's getting real old, and if we say that about autism what we're really saying is "suffer in silence and don't complain that nobody helps you" or you're entitled.



MjrMajorMajor
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Jan 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,714

10 Aug 2013, 4:38 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
I've noticed a difference in the attitude of most parents of kids with autism, as well as a few adults with autism, and a great many adults with autism.

While the former is very interested in finding ways to improve autistic symptoms and improve lives, the latter typically is not interested in self-improvement and just believes that society owes them free stuff. "We don't want treatment; we don't care about self-improvement; we just want free stuff" -- typical attitude on Aspies for Freedom.

Why is this?


I'm curious to see more clarification/explanation from the OP about how he gets this impression( outside of one group). I'm not looking for a handout, and there was no treatment for me when I was diagnosed over twenty years ago. There are many people who meet both criteria of ASD adult and parent, so where would you see us fall in this divide?

Savvyidentity wrote:

Also, this looks like yet another thread about why one group of people are "entitled". Let's stop throwing that around because it's getting real old, and if we say that about autism what we're really saying is "suffer in silence and don't complain that nobody helps you" or you're entitled.


I agree.