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MjrMajorMajor
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10 Aug 2013, 4:38 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
I've noticed a difference in the attitude of most parents of kids with autism, as well as a few adults with autism, and a great many adults with autism.

While the former is very interested in finding ways to improve autistic symptoms and improve lives, the latter typically is not interested in self-improvement and just believes that society owes them free stuff. "We don't want treatment; we don't care about self-improvement; we just want free stuff" -- typical attitude on Aspies for Freedom.

Why is this?


I'm curious to see more clarification/explanation from the OP about how he gets this impression( outside of one group). I'm not looking for a handout, and there was no treatment for me when I was diagnosed over twenty years ago. There are many people who meet both criteria of ASD adult and parent, so where would you see us fall in this divide?

Savvyidentity wrote:

Also, this looks like yet another thread about why one group of people are "entitled". Let's stop throwing that around because it's getting real old, and if we say that about autism what we're really saying is "suffer in silence and don't complain that nobody helps you" or you're entitled.


I agree.



Rascal77s
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10 Aug 2013, 5:00 pm

OP you had time to change the title of this thread to something more insulting but you don't have the time to reply to reply to some of the comments on your thread? You wake up on the dick side of your bed today?



Tyri0n
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10 Aug 2013, 5:03 pm

appletheclown wrote:
Would you rather be taken over by North Korea, or made to work for your keep? Even the homeless can make an effort to rise out of poverty. They could hunt for food, save up for a food vendor's, game processing, and trappers licences. After they do that, use good ol fashined citizen's tactical annexation (aka, squatting), and take over 5 different things: a warehouse, a warehouse with a bunch of valuables (anything you want) still inside, a motel, a junkyard, and a quarry with a massive amount of broken earth machines. If you have squatted and annexed all this stuff, you have just gone from rags riches, (WARNING: ONLY THE INVISIBLE OR HOBOS WITH TRUE GRIT CAN ACCOMPLISH SUCH FEATS OF SQUATTING)


If I were homeless, and had no prospects, I'd hike and hitch hike down to the Central American jungle to start a homestead, mugging rich people along the way for spending money. I grew up on a homestead in East Texas, so I kind of know how to do it. Much easier to squat and much richer land down in the tropics in Honduras/Costa Rica. Plus, you don't have to worry about winters.

In no case would I ever accept government handouts for life.



savvyidentity
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10 Aug 2013, 5:11 pm

Rascal77s wrote:
OP you had time to change the title of this thread to something more insulting but you don't have the time to reply to reply to some of the comments on your thread? You wake up on the dick side of your bed today?


Yeah, now it's just trolling and umbrella generalisation. Not to mention derailing and offensive.



Tyri0n
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10 Aug 2013, 5:15 pm

MjrMajorMajor wrote:
Tyri0n wrote:
I've noticed a difference in the attitude of most parents of kids with autism, as well as a few adults with autism, and a great many adults with autism.

While the former is very interested in finding ways to improve autistic symptoms and improve lives, the latter typically is not interested in self-improvement and just believes that society owes them free stuff. "We don't want treatment; we don't care about self-improvement; we just want free stuff" -- typical attitude on Aspies for Freedom.

Why is this?


I'm curious to see more clarification/explanation from the OP about how he gets this impression( outside of one group). I'm not looking for a handout, and there was no treatment for me when I was diagnosed over twenty years ago. There are many people who meet both criteria of ASD adult and parent, so where would you see us fall in this divide?

Savvyidentity wrote:

Also, this looks like yet another thread about why one group of people are "entitled". Let's stop throwing that around because it's getting real old, and if we say that about autism what we're really saying is "suffer in silence and don't complain that nobody helps you" or you're entitled.


I agree.


It's based on the impression I've gotten from this group as well as some other support groups. Every time I ask about strategies for self-improvement, I get lectured, but the threads about getting on SSI are always incredibly popular.

At the aspie meetup group I used to attend, the day they did a presentation on SSI, more than 100 people show up while, typically, 10 or fewer people show up to any meetings that have anything to do with employment or self-improvement. In Austin, Texas, there is a group called the "Austin Autism Treatment Forum" that is to connect people with resources, such as mental health professionals, dietary changes, and vocational training. Nearly all the members are NT parents with either young children or young adult children still living at home.

Oh, and in the L&D forum here, there are many many whiny threads (example: billiscool) complaining about rejection but almost no one asks themselves how he or she can become more attractive. People use that forum just to complain about members of the opposite sex.

Oh, and the point of the site Aspies for Freedom--with more members than this site--is that society should learn to accept people with Asperger's. While I'm all for that, it's debatable what exactly this means. I'm all for not rejecting people for innocent awkwardness. But does that mean society must accept creepy stalking behavior? Bad hygiene? No care for appearance? Racism and sexism? What exactly is it that society is supposed to tolerate?

Some common behavior is simply unacceptable and never should be tolerated. A bunch of women at the aspie meetup group in Dallas broke away and started an aspie women's group due to all the creepy and rapey behavior in the men's one. A few classy men also complained and were then invited to join the women's group (which by the way is much smaller than the main one). So is this the sort of behavior that is supposed to be tolerated? The rape and sexual assault rates perpetrated by male autistics are sky high.

The whole "don't you dare tell me to change" attitude is pretty self-defeating when the bad behavior is this bad, and if you truly are unwilling to change this sort of behavior, then you are not going to ever be well employed. Then, the only remaining alternative is getting government handouts.

I'm all for socialism, but I think that anyone who takes a government handout should be forced to engage in self-improvement and behavior modification if it's behavior that is preventing this person from working. In particular, the sexual deviancy and rapey behavior among many individuals on the spectrum is troubling, especially when they refuse to change it.



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10 Aug 2013, 5:33 pm

^

Why are you singling out a particular person? What about all your going on about entitlement in others? That's not whining?
Why are you creating umbrella bad character traits that according to you must belong to aspies?

Post edited, really don't want to get into a debate about any of that, completely offensive.



Last edited by savvyidentity on 10 Aug 2013, 5:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Rascal77s
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10 Aug 2013, 5:38 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
It's based on the impression I've gotten from this group as well as some other support groups. Every time I ask about strategies for self-improvement, I get lectured, but the threads about getting on SSI are always incredibly popular.

At the aspie meetup group I used to attend, the day they did a presentation on SSI, more than 100 people show up while, typically, 10 or fewer people show up to any meetings that have anything to do with employment or self-improvement. In Austin, Texas, there is a group called the "Austin Autism Treatment Forum" that is to connect people with resources, such as mental health professionals, dietary changes, and vocational training. Nearly all the members are NT parents with either young children or young adult children still living at home.

Oh, and in the L&D forum here, there are many many whiny threads (example: billiscool) complaining about rejection but almost no one asks themselves how he or she can become more attractive. People use that forum just to complain about members of the opposite sex.

Oh, and the point of the site Aspies for Freedom--with more members than this site--is that society should learn to accept people with Asperger's. While I'm all for that, it's debatable what exactly this means. I'm all for not rejecting people for innocent awkwardness. But does that mean society must accept creepy stalking behavior? Bad hygiene? No care for appearance? Racism and sexism? What exactly is it that society is supposed to tolerate?

Some common behavior is simply unacceptable and never should be tolerated. A bunch of women at the aspie meetup group in Dallas broke away and started an aspie women's group due to all the creepy and rapey behavior in the men's one. A few classy men also complained and were then invited to join the women's group (which by the way is much smaller than the main one). So is this the sort of behavior that is supposed to be tolerated? The rape and sexual assault rates perpetrated by male autistics are sky high.

The whole "don't you dare tell me to change" attitude is pretty self-defeating when the bad behavior is this bad, and if you truly are unwilling to change this sort of behavior, then you are not going to ever be well employed. Then, the only remaining alternative is getting government handouts.

I'm all for socialism, but I think that anyone who takes a government handout should be forced to engage in self-improvement and behavior modification if it's behavior that is preventing this person from working. In particular, the sexual deviancy and rapey behavior among many individuals on the spectrum is troubling, especially when they refuse to change it.


I don't even know what to say other than f**k off troll c**t.



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10 Aug 2013, 5:53 pm

I don't expect to get anything for free and I've started job searching in the Spring. I'm going to continue that search in a couple of weeks just before the High Schoolers go back to school and there will be more openings as a result. The reason is because I don't expect to get anything for free. I can make so many dollars a month without getting money cut off my disability cheques. I'm not on disability to get free stuff. I'm on disability to cover my expenses. I'd feel very degraded if I was handed free stuff on a platter.

I'm also not in the mood for a debate. It's not my style.


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10 Aug 2013, 6:08 pm

Rascal77s wrote:
OP you had time to change the title of this thread to something more insulting but you don't have the time to reply to reply to some of the comments on your thread? You wake up on the dick side of your bed today?


+1


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MjrMajorMajor
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10 Aug 2013, 6:22 pm

Tyri0n wrote:


It's based on the impression I've gotten from this group as well as some other support groups. Every time I ask about strategies for self-improvement, I get lectured, but the threads about getting on SSI are always incredibly popular.

At the aspie meetup group I used to attend, the day they did a presentation on SSI, more than 100 people show up while, typically, 10 or fewer people show up to any meetings that have anything to do with employment or self-improvement. In Austin, Texas, there is a group called the "Austin Autism Treatment Forum" that is to connect people with resources, such as mental health professionals, dietary changes, and vocational training. Nearly all the members are NT parents with either young children or young adult children still living at home.


That is sad, but not everyone has these resources or the ability to navigate what is available in their areas. Also, we have to keep in mind that there are varying levels of disability within the spectrum.
Tyri0n wrote:
Oh, and in the L&D forum here, there are many many whiny threads (example: billiscool) complaining about rejection but almost no one asks themselves how he or she can become more attractive. People use that forum just to complain about members of the opposite sex.


I'm not going to single anyone out, but I do agree with you on that one.
Tyri0n wrote:
Oh, and the point of the site Aspies for Freedom--with more members than this site--is that society should learn to accept people with Asperger's. While I'm all for that, it's debatable what exactly this means. I'm all for not rejecting people for innocent awkwardness. But does that mean society must accept creepy stalking behavior? Bad hygiene? No care for appearance? Racism and sexism? What exactly is it that society is supposed to tolerate?


You can find those negative qualities within the general population. I'm not familiar with Aspies for Freedom, but I'd be really shocked if that is exactly what they're promoting. How about an acceptance that we do process and see the world a little differently, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have a voice? An acceptance of the fact that we can be contributive members of society, and more so if some adjustments are made to play to our strengths?
Tyri0n wrote:
Some common behavior is simply unacceptable and never should be tolerated. A bunch of women at the aspie meetup group in Dallas broke away and started an aspie women's group due to all the creepy and rapey behavior in the men's one. A few classy men also complained and were then invited to join the women's group (which by the way is much smaller than the main one). So is this the sort of behavior that is supposed to be tolerated? The rape and sexual assault rates perpetrated by male autistics are sky high.

Where are you getting your figures from?
Tyri0n wrote:
The whole "don't you dare tell me to change" attitude is pretty self-defeating when the bad behavior is this bad, and if you truly are unwilling to change this sort of behavior, then you are not going to ever be well employed. Then, the only remaining alternative is getting government handouts.

I'm all for socialism, but I think that anyone who takes a government handout should be forced to engage in self-improvement and behavior modification if it's behavior that is preventing this person from working. In particular, the sexual deviancy and rapey behavior among many individuals on the spectrum is troubling, especially when they refuse to change it.


I have taken government handouts in the past as a single mother, and I've also been gainfully employed for a very long while. That's the purpose of having a social safety net. Sometimes abilities or circumstances don't match up with what's available in the job market.

I still don't understand the comments about sexual deviancy. There have been some disturbing articles written lately, but in them they agree that the numbers are very minute.



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10 Aug 2013, 6:26 pm

Tyrion, it looks as if you hit a nerve as the reactions are all heat and no light. My guess is the majority of those insulting and degrading you are doing so because they are addicted to handouts. Your critics seem to be doing their utmost to prove the Republicans right: Dependency only generates resentment and bad behavior. I can only wish it were otherwise....



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10 Aug 2013, 6:28 pm

Thelibrarian wrote:
Tyrion, it looks as if you hit a nerve as the reactions are all heat and no light. My guess is the majority of those insulting and degrading you are doing so because they are addicted to handouts. Your critics seem to be doing their utmost to prove the Republicans right: Dependency only generates resentment and bad behavior. I can only wish it were otherwise....


I'll reiterate my point...there are varying levels of ability on the spectrum. Should someone be attacked if they are at a level of disability that leaves them unable to financially support themselves independently?



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10 Aug 2013, 6:32 pm

Thelibrarian wrote:
Tyrion, it looks as if you hit a nerve as the reactions are all heat and no light. My guess is the majority of those insulting and degrading you are doing so because they are addicted to handouts. Your critics seem to be doing their utmost to prove the Republicans right: Dependency only generates resentment and bad behavior. I can only wish it were otherwise....


He didn't give sources for statistics he claims exist. Where is his "light"?

I'm certainly not addicted to handouts as I don't have any handouts.

Where is this dependence that has created resentment and bad behaviour in his "critics"? I don't see that. I do see people responding to his obvious trolling though and changing topic and original post to suit his later needs in this "debate".

Also I don't care much for republicans as I'm not a US citizen.



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10 Aug 2013, 6:33 pm

MjrMajorMajor wrote:
Thelibrarian wrote:
Tyrion, it looks as if you hit a nerve as the reactions are all heat and no light. My guess is the majority of those insulting and degrading you are doing so because they are addicted to handouts. Your critics seem to be doing their utmost to prove the Republicans right: Dependency only generates resentment and bad behavior. I can only wish it were otherwise....


I'll reiterate my point...there are varying levels of ability on the spectrum. Should someone be attacked if they are at a level of disability that leaves them unable to financially support themselves independently?


Major, not everybody on the spectrum is capable of working; my problem is with learned helplessness. I will let Tyrion speak for himself as to whether he begrudges this unfortunate group entitlements, but that's not what I've heard him say. What I've heard Tyrion say is IF an aspie is capable of working, THEN that aspie should be self-supporting. And insofar as this is Tyrion's point, I agree with him. There is no right to be a burden to others.



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10 Aug 2013, 6:37 pm

savvyidentity wrote:
Thelibrarian wrote:
Tyrion, it looks as if you hit a nerve as the reactions are all heat and no light. My guess is the majority of those insulting and degrading you are doing so because they are addicted to handouts. Your critics seem to be doing their utmost to prove the Republicans right: Dependency only generates resentment and bad behavior. I can only wish it were otherwise....


He didn't give sources for statistics he claims exist. Where is his "light"?

I'm certainly not addicted to handouts as I don't have any handouts.

Where is this dependence that has created resentment and bad behaviour in his "critics"? I don't see that. I do see people responding to his obvious trolling though and changing topic and original post to suit his later needs in this "debate".

Also I don't care much for republicans as I'm not a US citizen.


If you're not a US citizen, my comments don't concern you. I don't believe in getting involved in the internal affairs of other countries, nor are US internal affairs any business of yours.

Having said this, methinks you doth protest too much.



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10 Aug 2013, 6:39 pm

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Well, coming from "left field" I say we can't afford any of it. As far as your logic goes, you need to do some more work, as you're assuming a hypothetical instead of a disjunctive or conjunctive.


Now that you said the first statement I understand what you're stating now. It is logically consistent. My issue was this.

If we couldn't afford to do Ettina's suggestions then it isn't possible to afford our military adventures and the war on terror. From this, I was asking if the antecedent is true then how would the consequent be false?

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As far as your wolf/sheep analogy goes, would it really be better if the sheep determines what is for dinner for the four wolves? And if so, how is that different than tyranny?


Fair enough. By this logic, how would it be possible for tyranny not to exist at all. Someone or a group eventually has to decide and at least one of them may not like the decision? How would it be possible to stamp out all tyranny?