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Aspie1
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14 May 2018, 4:38 pm

Looking back at the therapy sessions I did ages 11 thru 16, I can't help but wonder if my therapist was mocking me. It as just the way she talked, making it sound like the things I told her were nonsensical, stupid, or unrealistic. Or just brushing me off entirely. Consider the following dialog snippets.

In the snippets, spoken words will be in "quotes"; my thoughts will be in (parentheses), tone of voice will be in [square brackets], and actions will be in <angle brackets>.

Aspie1: "When my parents say 'You'll get your restaurant trip!' when it means I won't, it's hurtful."
Therapist: [like she doesn't understand] "It hurts your feelings when they talk like that?"
Aspie1: (Are you too stupid to know that sarcasm is hurtful?) [confused] "Yes."
Therapist: "And when they're not talking like that, it doesn't hurt your feelings?
Aspie1: (Umm, okay, why did you ask?) "No." <changes topic> "How 'bout them sport teams?"
Type of mockery: Rhetorical questions.
What she should have said: "At least try telling them sarcasm hurts your feelings, then tell me how it went."

Aspie1: "I told my parents I wanted to go Disney World for our next vacation, and they said: 'What are you, a baby?'"
Therapist: <tilts her head to the side> [cooing tone] "Aw, it made you sad when they called you a baby?"
Aspie1: (Lady, what's your catch?) [very cautiously] "Yes..."
Type of mockery: Mimicking me in baby talk.
What she should have said: "Learn to keep your wishes to yourself for now; you'll be old enough to work soon."

Aspie1: "My parents locked me out of my room, and let my little niece go through my things. I hate it!"
Therapist: <blithely smiling> "Is your niece cute?"
Aspie1: [frustrated] "We're not talking about my niece's cuteness!"
Therapist: <still blithely smiling> "Tell me, is she cute?"
Aspie1: [angry] "Yes! And knows how to use her cutenss in her favor."
Therapist: [cooing tone] "Aw, she sounds adorable. Just tell your parents how you feel."
Aspie1: (Are you stupid or just pretending? They don't care how I feel!) [flatly] "OK, I will."
Type of mockery: Smugly rubbing in my face about how my niece manipulated my parents with her cuteness.
What she should have said: "I'm sorry, Aspie1, I got nothing. Your parents are in the wrong, though."

Now, why in the world would a therapist, who's a trained professional with a Master's in psychology, actually mock a patient, and a fragile teenager to boot? Was she showing me her smugness and/or superiority about how she doesn't have to go through those situations? Or is this just a garden-variety AS/NT misunderstanding.



Last edited by Aspie1 on 14 May 2018, 5:17 pm, edited 6 times in total.

giveen
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14 May 2018, 4:42 pm

Were you diagnosed then and did she know it?



StampySquiddyFan
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14 May 2018, 8:07 pm

IMHO, I don't believe she was consciously trying to mock you, but I can definitely tell why you might view it this way. This is just the ignorant attitude of some dense psychologists out there. These are the ones that I think should have never been involved in any sort of speciality that required them to deal with specific disorders. Not to say all psychologists that don't specialize in a specific diagnosis are bad, but there are a select few out there (that I have also been fortunate enough to have to deal with on many an occasion :roll: ) with this sort of annoying demeanor ("It hurts your feeling when they talk like that?--"No, you thought I said that but I actually meant the exact opposite :x ").

In the end, I think you just unfortunately ended up with a dimwitted psych who had no clue what she was doing, and, to compensate, basically just restated what information you provided her with or said something completely irrelevant that dismissed all your issues. I don't believe it was intentional, but I have no clue how these people end up with a Master's degree :roll: .


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BeaArthur
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14 May 2018, 9:13 pm

Hate to say it, but the therapist was "supposed" to say these things in these tones of voice, and I bet her supervisor would have totally approved.

Because autistic people have atypical reactions to interpersonal communication, the cooing, apparent sarcasm (which was "mirroring" or "restating") and such were not resonating with your feelings. I've had these same disconnects myself when I was a therapy client. Likewise, when I was being trained as a therapist, some of my supervisors felt I did not show enough empathy (the "cooing" thing).

I wouldn't say your teenage years therapist was good, or bad. She just wasn't right for you.


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Aspie1
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14 May 2018, 11:58 pm

giveen wrote:
Were you diagnosed then and did she know it?
No to both, and I want to keep it that way. Knowing therapists, I'm sure she'd have mocked me even more, all under the pretext of "caring" or "teaching me".

BeaArthur wrote:
Because autistic people have atypical reactions to interpersonal communication, the cooing, apparent sarcasm (which was "mirroring" or "restating") and such were not resonating with your feelings. I've had these same disconnects myself when I was a therapy client. Likewise, when I was being trained as a therapist, some of my supervisors felt I did not show enough empathy (the "cooing" thing).
You know, my therapist's mockery taught me to fake empathy well enough to fool all but the most shrewd NTs. For a great example of faking empathy, watch "Deal or No Deal" (or play an arcade game of the same name). Pay close attention to the suitcase girls' facial expressions. Notice how when a contestant mistakenly eliminates a high-scoring suitcase, she puts on a compassionate "Oh no!" expression. And when he/she lucks out and eliminate a low-scoring suitcase, you can just see her eyes light up at his/her happiness. I'm sure most aspies here are smart enough to know that those girls' emotions are as staged as Kim Kardashian! But do the emotions look real? You bet!



giveen
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15 May 2018, 1:01 pm

If she isn't aware, she could be trying "tough love" on you.



Aspie1
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15 May 2018, 1:48 pm

giveen wrote:
If she isn't aware, she could be trying "tough love" on you.
Well, if the did, it worked unexpectedly well. I interpreted it that she was telling me to stop whining. So I stopped. I never brought up any "difficult" subject with her again. Even when a family member was in the hospital in serious condition, I never told her. I figured: "Why bother, if all she'll do is coo at me?"

Instead, most often, I just fabricated text anxiety (when in reality, I always got good grades), and smiled and nodded as she "helped me deal with it", then thanked her profusely. Other times, I talked talk about the dreams I had, and asked for her interpretations, which she obliged.



giveen
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15 May 2018, 2:27 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
giveen wrote:
If she isn't aware, she could be trying "tough love" on you.
Well, if the did, it worked unexpectedly well. I interpreted it that she was telling me to stop whining. So I stopped. I never brought up any "difficult" subject with her again. Even when a family member was in the hospital in serious condition, I never told her. I figured: "Why bother, if all she'll do is coo at me?"

Instead, most often, I just fabricated text anxiety (when in reality, I always got good grades), and smiled and nodded as she "helped me deal with it", then thanked her profusely. Other times, I talked talk about the dreams I had, and asked for her interpretations, which she obliged.

Is it possible for you to ask for a different therapist?



naturalplastic
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15 May 2018, 3:41 pm

That cooing does sound out of line to me because it usually is done to mock someone. And it is often done to give the person "tough love" by a parent. But a therapist shouldn't do that.

Most therapists would talk in a normal tone, and ask something like "so your parents think that you are too old to go to Disney World?" to ascertain if that is what the issue is that your parents have with you asking for that.

And then go from there to explore both you, and your parents' side of the issue.



Aspie1
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15 May 2018, 3:54 pm

giveen wrote:
Is it possible for you to ask for a different therapist?

That was 20 years ago. Although the PTSD-like after-effects of her tactics are lingering, apparently.

I saw one therapist as an adult. I found him pleasant, but not very helpful. He didn't spout off "feelings", thankfully. But most of his suggestions missed the mark, and didn't apply to my situation at the time. (However, his insight on the psychology of travel was intriguing, after I debriefed to him about a cruise I took.) But by then, I was smart enough to evade shady therapy tactics, and I think he knew. I made sure of that by name-dropping famous historic psychologists (Freud, Jung, Rogers, etc.), and asking him which one he looked up to the most. (Basically, counter-interviewing him to see if he's a good fit.) Knowing the NT mindset, I knew my question had more impact if I mentioned people, rather than formal names of therapy methods. Plus, at the first session, I looked like a simple, normal man who ran into some trouble, and was close to him in age to boot.

On the other hand, when I saw the first therapist, I came in to her office looking like a lost, troubled kid. In other words, I looked weak. Since NTs generally dislike weakness, that might have affected her perception of me.



Aspie1
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21 May 2018, 2:05 pm

BeaArthur wrote:
Because autistic people have atypical reactions to interpersonal communication, the cooing, apparent sarcasm (which was "mirroring" or "restating") and such were not resonating with your feelings. I've had these same disconnects myself when I was a therapy client. Likewise, when I was being trained as a therapist, some of my supervisors felt I did not show enough empathy (the "cooing" thing).

Fair enough. But from your and/or your boss's point of view, how is cooing supposed to be empathy? :? I mean, my therapist was treating me like I'm a puppy or kitten in a pet store window, and she had a cuteness overload. All while I was confiding a serious issue to her. That's not empathy; that's mockery! :evil: Especially considering that she didn't help me with any of it!

Or here's another theory: money! The problems I talked to her about were how my parents acted, the ones who were paying her. So it'd be financially unwise---and in a way, ungrateful---for her to talk badly about them. Also, maybe she had a very old-school mindset: that the parents are always right. So she tried to put on an illusion of helping me, while siding with my parents all along. What she didn't realize is that I was smart enough to see through the illusion.



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21 May 2018, 6:00 pm

Wow, paranoid much? I think it unfortunate that you had so much feeling of alienation from your first therapist, that you can't trust any other therapist to help you much. My guess is you still have pretty profound social difficulties. I agree that therapist #1 failed you (though I dispute it was from financial motives), but you have overgeneralized in your assumption that they are all crooks and charlatans. (Maybe that's an exaggeration, I'm having attentional issues today, sorry). Anyway, though I haven't liked all my therapists, I am comfortable with the one I see today, and find her easy to relate to.


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21 May 2018, 8:49 pm

I would be irritated by her responses (as relayed) too. I didn't see the first section as being insulting (just sounded like lack of concern on her part). The second and particularly third portions make me wonder if she was taking her job seriously.

Therapists should challenge you some, but not intentionally make you feel belittled or ignored. I don't know if that was her intention, or just a misunderstanding. If you do therapy in the future, it might be more productive to un-bracket some of those thought bubbles (without being strident yourself).



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21 May 2018, 9:41 pm

How do these kinds of people get such a profession in the first place?

Seriously going on how "cute" the niece is when she is probably destroying your things that are important to you is just sickening. :eew:



Aspie1
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22 May 2018, 8:18 pm

lostonearth35 wrote:
Seriously going on how "cute" the niece is when she is probably destroying your things that are important to you is just sickening. :eew:
Damn if I know! She had a long history of deflecting any issue I talked to her about, unless it was about school and/or my grades. Come to think of it, my parents sent me to see her because I was struggling with school and making friends. When in fact, their hyper-strict parenting and fervent obsession over my grades were creating a vicious cycle.

Once I learned how my therapist thinks, I started fabricating school-related issues, just to occupy the session time, even though she never told me anything I didn't already know. Because she never lifted a finger to actually help me. What makes it even sadder is that she never caught on that I was fabricating everything she "helped" me with.



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22 May 2018, 8:47 pm

Seriously, she doesn't sound so much evil or corrupt, as just plain stupid. I've met several of those in my day.

Clever of you, though, to fabricate stuff to tell her to make the sessions go by better.


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