Asperger's and the Uncanny Valley

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Apologies for upping this thread, but it's mainly for the benefit of anyone who joined WP since 2007, which is most of you. And I found out about Uncanny Valley only today, had never heard of it before, and immediately thought of what relevance it has to a few of the people on the spectrum. I searched, found this, and Raseri's original post was indeed a damn good one. Although I was going to do a post about Uncanny Valley, I really see nothing necessary to add to Raseri's post, so here you go.

I wonder how many here perceive the uncanny valley effect. It took me ages to even understand what it describes, and I just don't see it.

I also found that apparently while robots in videos as well as CGI animation can trigger the uncanny valley effect (at least in people who see it), that it's much less likely to happen with robots in person (or perhaps doesn't happen at all):

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technol ... ts/4343054

And this is exactly why I should give up with acting like an NT to begin with.

of course, what this is really about is the shift from social expectations to intimate expectations. those expectations for other humans whom we have scant knowledge of, depend heavily on codes & the sameness of the responders. when intimacy has been agreed, idiosyncrasies become relatively permissible. but intimacy-before-agreement is experienced as a violation. in short, one who is not predictable enough, causes a sense of violation to be invoked--at least, in those of a relatively rigid outlook.

"i am a human; nothing human is foreign to me." --this is the attitude of neurotypicals who can accept us for who we are.

"my planet: love it or leave it." --this is the attitude of neurotypicals who can only accept us as faulty approximations of themselves.

the "uncanny valley" effect can be countered, to a degree, if you have acquired a repertoire of cliches that can be deployed to defuse the tension. on the other hand, perceiving that tension as it accumulates, is another matter... i realize as i write this that i remember telling myself, when entering unfamiliar territory, something on the order of (in pictures): "what do you do when you meet a strange dog? you move slowly & speak to it gently. convince it you aren't an enemy. when it starts growling & raising its hackles, back off." also: remember what the form is of what you're supposed to be when you enter this situation. what do you come closest to resembling?

there are shapes where imperfection of presentation is part of the shape.

Might this be the experience one gets when they hear a person speaking in an accent they don't fully know how to do well? Where the person makes mistakes here & there that a native would never make? Same thing as any fluent foreign language speaker to accidentally slip out & make an uncommon mistake?

I agree with your observation. I also think this may be why people don't react as negatively toward me as some other aspies as I present as being obviously different from others and there's no ambivalence about me being "like everyone else".

This is especially when I'm in an environment such as a fast-paced restaurant job that brings out all my weaknesses. And I guess being extremely shy within a culture of extreme extroverts plays a part as well. So I'm at that point right before the uncanny valley kicks in which actually sort of makes me endearing to a lot of NTs. You know, like a Pixar character who's three-dimensional and realistic....but still cartoon-like.

I'd like to know more about this. Heres my very poor understanding.

When you look at someone/something and everything is 'normal' to you different areas of your brain fire simultaneously. For example, some neurons fire for visual recognition and some neurons fire for feelings - (thats me mum, she looks like me mum, and I feel love, so she feels like me mum - everything is ok)
They happened simultaneously (they can see this sort of thing in MRIs) and it 'feels' right. If something doesn't feel right, visually or aurally 'not right', signals not firing, or delayed you get parts of your brain associated with anxiety firing (sub regions of the amygdala?)

Thats a lot of vagueness. I'm just thinking out aloud, I'd love to learn more about this. Stick people in MRIs and look at Uncanny Valley stuff. Someone must have done it.

The Uncanny Valley observation is good and I do believe there's some truth in it.

Unlike many here, I can get really scared of the objects that fall into the uncanny valley. I don't really mean on robots or animated characters (though they count, too), but sometimes, real humans can appear to me that way. I think I'm scared of the women who wear too much makeup. Or people with botox.

I think it's important to understand the reaction to the uncanny valley is not conscious. In other words, NTs who react this way to autistic people don't do it consciously; it's just an instinctive reaction of some sorts.

Some NT jerk told me back in third grade, "why doesn't your face change [in response to emotionally-charged conversations]? Your face is creepy like an alien's!". Ended up crying myself to bed that night.

"Uncanny Valley" is one way to put this tendency to fear the Other. There is a similar metaphor in the "Purple Monkey" concept. Here the idea is that if you dye a monkey purple and put it in a cage with normal monkeys the purple monkey will be bullied and possibly killed because it doesn't belong. Humans are primates. Naked apes. All too often humans react to difference from the monkey brain and try to drive the Other away. Much of the ideal that humans aspire to attain transcends monkey brain. It requires working outside the comfort zone. Our aspieness is one difference. There are many others. I have to point out that in this group, NT is Other and frequently met with monkey brain.

Wow, OP, great observation, I am familiar with the piece, I read it in a philosophy course on society and technology. Relating it to ASD in an NT world is really appropriate, I'm having an uncanny reaction to this, lol.

i made a thread on the way NTs see us. i think that your observation is a step forward from mine. you have really described it beautifully.

Redacted

Watch these and look across the uncanny valley yourself...

ASIMO may look very little like a human, but the way it moves is unbelievable.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmabKC1P51A[/youtube]


With this one, the appearance is almost human. To be honest, I'm strangely attracted to her
(the may be hope for male aspies to find love at last )
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1SADcP5g1o[/youtube]

Give it a just few more years and the two technologies will merge.