Seeing numbers backwards and copying them wrong?

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DJFester
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24 Nov 2011, 3:24 am

My wife and Father In Law have similar issues - transposing numbers & letters, mixing up left & right, etc. It's dyslexia.


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MrJosh
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24 Nov 2011, 8:59 pm

colr_mee_grn wrote:
Yes, doctors can often times overlook things that are an issue because they feel it should have been brought up or diagnosed at an earlier time. With many of us though, that was never an option. Its hard to get a diagnoses for an adult.

And I do agree that it has nothing to do with anxiety.


Yeah, I have no doubt that it's not anxiety. I could be completely relaxed and it would still happen. I'm really worried about bringing it up at the doctors again, but I'm also even more concerned about ignoring it and having serious issues in work.



colr_mee_grn
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26 Nov 2011, 11:02 pm

I think it would help just knowing what the problem actually is. That would give us a place to start. It is difficult bringing it up with most people because they don't understand it and look at us like we are crazy and just making things up for the attention. The flip side of that is when brought up with a doctor, a lot of them will be quick to prescribe a pill without checking everything out. Just because I have a symptom, doesn't mean its the first problem that comes up. Am I actually making sense? blah. I have a million thoughts in my head right now and I feel I'm rambling. :P



dancing_penguin
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27 Nov 2011, 12:47 am

I can relate to this issue, of getting numbers and symbols mixed up and miscopied in university mathematics quite a bit, when copying from the board and doing problems. I'll be working along in a problem and notice that from the last line I copied a 3 down as a 4 or something (and this sort of thing isn't particularly infrequent, so I generally double check as I go). Many times when I enter values into the calculator, I end up getting different results on the other side, a few times in a row even, so I always double check my calculations (there was a particularly heinous test I had once that required entering approximately 20 complex calculations in a row into a hand calculator for several different questions... signs (and presumably digits) got reversed here and there, and I ended up with a different result after 3 or 4 different tries for each step... what a nightmare that test was). It makes many types of problems take much longer though (like in that example). I have quite a bit of difficulty working with equations, too, like someone mentioned earlier. It's better if I write things out in words (however, I am an excellent editor of words, which probably means that this helps for me because I am stronger in this way), and keep track of the connections between things with arrows and underlining. Maybe try underlining and circling the key results in your answer as you go; that may be of some help (perhaps) by giving a clear visual indicator of where the correct answer is.

It seems to be worst when I have a lot of unfamiliar weird symbols that I am working with, like zeta (new this term) and psi. I supposed perhaps it was anxiety related, but this can happen whenever, and then that causes the anxiety, I suppose. My Dad's officially dyslexic, but I haven't been diagnosed with anything (but they do say it's hereditary).

Here's some info on dyslexia (see "What indicators can help identify dyslexia?"): link
Personally, I find some symptoms in that list that I have that I didn't really connect to the condition before: "Frequent usage of imprecise words (i.e. stuff, things, etc.)" (I do that a lot), "Tendency to “talk around” a word by describing it with indirect words" (sometimes I have forgotten a word that I want to use, even though I know it perfectly well), "Speech littered with hesitations or pauses" (but then perhaps I need more practice, I figure), "Avoidance of public speaking or reading" (supposed it is social anxiety), "Use of word substitutions while reading (i.e. car for automobile)" (yes, I do kind of do that, which may cause difficulties in reading nonfiction but not in fiction), "Difficulty reading small function words (i.e. in, on, the, that, an)" (they kind of get skipped when I'm writing sometimes, too, but I don't see that until I go back and edit things), "Inability to read with appropriate speed or fluency" (some material yes, some no, but perhaps I get more adept at subtle substitution once I get reading a work of fiction full steam), "Hesitant and choppy rhythm of reading, with words omitted or misspoken" (well, my teacher in high school told me I read oddly; however, I was always very quick), "Highly variable performance on exams, with time as a strong predictor of performance" (oh yes; case in point, latest physics test, where one section had a lot of complicated integration, which takes me quite a while to write out even at full speed), "Poor handwriting" (despite much practice as a kid, and the ability to make my writing look pretty if I have to, my writing isn't very neat), "Reading easily disrupted in a noisy environment" (certainly), and "Diminished self-esteem" (I guess maybe). Anyway, my point here is that there are apparently many symptoms of dyslexia, some of which may be taken to be indicators of other things (ha, there I go with "things"), so perhaps you may also find this list of value. Meanwhile feel free to join "the society for putting things on top of other things." (There are also some suggestions to help, but they look more how to help people to learn how to read.)

Here's a blog where someone who talks about how they tried to take the bar exam and failed it 4 times (particularly the multiple choice portion, which sounds really relevant in your case), and found out that they had dyslexia later as a result of their difficulty: link Apparently someone told them at first, "If you got this far without accommodations, then you don't need them now," but later they did end up with accommodations given.


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XFilesGeek
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27 Nov 2011, 1:51 pm

I have exactly the same problem. It's like dyslexia, but it only affects numbers.

First, it is NOT an "anxiety issue." Anyone who tries to tell you it's an emotional problem, or you can fix it by "trying harder" is a buffoon. I can suggest the following strategies:

1. Use graph paper to do your work on.

2. Use different color pens to write different numbers.

3. Use a piece of paper to cover up whatever area of the paper you're NOT currently working on (reduces visual "noise").

4. Use a ruler or your finger to "underline" whatever step you are on.

5. Bring the paper or book closer to your face (it makes you look like a nerd, but it works and I don't know why).

Best of luck!! You are not alone, and it's not just your imagination. Unfortunately, a lot of teachers don't believe "math disabilities" exist. Apparently, you can mix of letters, but it's impossible to have an LD that causes you to mix up numbers. :roll:


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27 Nov 2011, 4:39 pm

If no one has mentioned it, it is called dyscalculia and it is the little brother of dyslexia and less recognised, I had it all my life and my teachers assumed i was stupid.

When I was 3 my dad tried teaching me it and while my brothers all got it I never could (one of my brothers is considering doing maths at Ph.d level) but once he taught me to read I far surpassed them.

Find something you are good at :)


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ranthaman
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24 Feb 2017, 4:57 pm

I'm very happy to have found this forum and for everyones' replies about the topic.
I've been searching for a reason to my issue that's similar to this but it seems inconclusive.
It is not exactly like either dyslexia, dyscalculia, or irlen syndrome, but similar perhaps.

I tend to naturally think in a backwards sequence?
It's been brought to my attention a few times this past week which really prompted me to search for why I am doing this.

I don't know if any of you have ever played Rumicube but that's a good example for what I'm talking about. (or poker works)
in Rumicube you can lay down a run of numbers in sequence (ie 123456789, like the order they are on a keyboard).
I however, naturally put down 987654321. I also order my hand of letters this way. smallests number on the right, largests on the left. My organized hand in a game of poker would thus be something like (king, jack, 10, 4, 2).

It is near the same with (not words) but reading sequence, wanting to read on the right side first. Someone had sent me a comic cartoon with three guys each saying something in a speech bubble (as comics do). But I read the bubbles in backwards order so I didn't get the joke... This is how I naturally think.

(As for dyslexia, dyscalculia, or Irlen syndrome)
dyslexia I do constantly get my ds and bs backwards, sometimes get 3's confused and as a kid wrote J's backward and had to go to a special school for learning to read. But when I researched on dyslexia it seems much more intense and complicated than I feel what's happending with me.

Irlen syndrome I do (as I stated) have reading difficulty, get frustated with lighting (especial glare), sometimes headaches and often turn lights off or my computer's/phone's brightness down to the minimum (even at work). But this is not always and general sunlight or brightness I don't think is an issue. Only for concentrating or headaches.

dyscalculia, I had never been that great at maths and graduated highschool with a poor grade in the minimum math needed (special learners geometry, never took any algebra or higher then). But I have taken maths in college now and can do it better. looking up dyscalculia doesn't seem right for me either because I understand the concepts of numbers well and don't jumble them really.

To me, arranging numbers as 987654321 instead of 123456789 just makes more sense I think, especially with numbers. take the number 1,998 vs 998 vs 98 vs 8, as numbers as added on to the LEFT, the number grows larger in value. Thus it makes perfect sense for my mind to organize the largest numbers to the left and smallest to the right. one thousand, then nine hundred, then ninty, then eight. biggest to smallest.
However, I don't struggle too much with this when I have the right order to reference by (like typing it on my keyboard, which to me is putting them in the order I do anyway even though it's reading the other way, because when I arrange my number sequence out as 987654321, I select 1 first, then 2, then 3, and so forth, but just laying them up to the left...

(i haven't figured the use the way I think in terms of reading order) but my superier at work has told me what I do is not right with arranging my documents. And when I play math games with people they ask if I'm dyslexic.
I often get stumped over what is right and my left also.

if this is one of the three (either dyslexia, dyscalculia or irlen syndrome) then I do not know which one because none seem to fit right. If someone else reads this and can tell which or what it is please do clue me in!

It's not much getting in the way of my living life, but it certainly confuses me at times where I cannot distinguish what is right anymore and I probably look very odd to people because of my blatent confusion.

I do hope this post adds to the helpfulness of this forum because all of your guy's stories and posts have helped me!
But maybe someone could help me or relate
It is comforting to see just how many people relate on the same issue!