Complex PTSD as Result of Severe Bullying

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southwestforests
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24 Jul 2009, 1:40 am

I can tell you one thing what can cause a man to abuse a woman :arrow:

The man with undiagnosed Asperger's is having a meltdown.
The woman he is married to is making fun of him for it.
The man asks repeatedly for the woman to stop ridiculing him.
The woman waves her finger in the man's face and says "I'll use ridicule whenever I want to. I'll keep using ridicule. And you'll just learn to live with it"

The man remembers that his brother's wife went from ridiculing the brother to taking a knife to try to kill the brother.
The man remembers all the classmates, co-workers, bosses, parents, who have made fun of him throughout his life.
The man feels his worst nightmare has just come true - his helpmate, his love, his shelter, has just torn him down, destroyed and devalued him, in the worst way possible. And may go the same way as his brother's wife - after all, she's also overweight and dark haired just like the brother's wife - she's the same - and will do the same thing.
The man decides he now has nothing to lose.

Now, any questions as to why abuse happened?


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exhausted
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24 Jul 2009, 2:11 am

Tory_canuck wrote:
Fatigue with symptoms of or similar to Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (formerly ME)-I find I am up alot, dont sleep much, and when I do Im still tired.
An overwhelming desire for acknowledgement, understanding, recognition and validation of their experienceA simultaneous and paradoxical unwillingness to talk about the bullying (click here to see why) or abuse (click here to see why)-dont like talking about it much to my family and close friends
A lack of desire for revenge, but a strong motivation for justice-always have thoughts of suing the bullies as well as urging other bullying victims to seek legal action against their tormentors
A tendency to oscillate between conciliation (forgiveness) and anger (revenge) with objectivity being the main casualty-I switch between these two
Clumsiness-Im pretty clumsy at times.When I worked at Vegreville coop I was pretty clumsy.
Forgetfulness-I am very forgetful.
A constant feeling that one has to justify everything one says and does-I always try to justify everything I do.
A constant need to prove oneself, even when surrounded by good, positive people-
I work extra hard at work and always feel I must prove myself to keep my job.I always have feelings of inadequacy.They all say Im doing good, but even if i make one small mistake, I am angry at myself and hard on myself about it.
Feelings of worthlessness, rejection, a sense of being unwanted, unlikeable and unlovable-Always have these feelings.As a result, I try too hard in the friendship department.I once tried too hard and ended up losing a friend because of it.



yep. busted.

occasionally i get angry at the actual abusers. but mostly i want to stop the _____ war. (fill in the blank. whichever happens to be going on at any given time.)

i get FURIOUS when my perceptions are invalidated. at the same time: what happened? who me? never think about it, sure.

worthlessness? i vacillate between believing i'm a worthless bother and being convinced of it.

it inhales.

i've nooo idea what to do. had only one therapist who had a clue and she was short term. (worked at a crisis center.) PTSD on top of general aspie traits makes relating to the world so much more.... how should i put it? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHGGHH.

that basically sums it up.

still wondering: anyone have any treatment that worked pretty well (taking AS/ASD traits into account?) i'm pretty fed up with the regular therapy routine. also, my AS traits once led to a misdiagnosis of schizotypal pd---which in turn gave the therapist all the excuse she needed to INVALIDATE ALL MY PERCEPTIONS. (i was "delusional." )

seems like i would have delusions about something other than violence and abuse. but it's not just the abuse of authority (as far as that therapist went.) it's the sloppy thinking.

i'd still like to know what's worked for people; what's not.


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Tory_canuck
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24 Jul 2009, 3:10 am

Working at the coop in vegreville for two years before going to college helped a bit.The bosses and co workers were all nice and so were the customers.I was clumsy there for a while but it started to go away as I neared my time to move to Red Deer for college. At coop I was slowly improving and gaining confidence.It was kinda therapeudic in a sense that the customers were nice and so were the co workers and when I was working, I worked at my own pace and wasn't pressured.Nobody bullied me, I was given space, but not ignored.

However, here in Red Deer during the school year, my classmates ignored me, and the one friend I had here decided he didnt like me all of a sudden.After nasty messages from his other friend, things went completely downhill again.Thankfully I have a job at a store and I am starting to rebuild what I had once gained at coop.

I still have many of these issues, but hopefully time will heal the wounds.If not, then I can always seek help since the college does have a student support centre.


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exhausted
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24 Jul 2009, 9:38 am

hmm. so it seems to boil down to community, more or less. (i was a little afraid of that. :-) even so, it's good to hear that there are things that work. go well!



bhetti
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24 Jul 2009, 2:22 pm

southwestforests wrote:
I can tell you one thing what can cause a man to abuse a woman :arrow:

The man with undiagnosed Asperger's is having a meltdown.
The woman he is married to is making fun of him for it.
The man asks repeatedly for the woman to stop ridiculing him.
The woman waves her finger in the man's face and says "I'll use ridicule whenever I want to. I'll keep using ridicule. And you'll just learn to live with it"

The man remembers that his brother's wife went from ridiculing the brother to taking a knife to try to kill the brother.
The man remembers all the classmates, co-workers, bosses, parents, who have made fun of him throughout his life.
The man feels his worst nightmare has just come true - his helpmate, his love, his shelter, has just torn him down, destroyed and devalued him, in the worst way possible. And may go the same way as his brother's wife - after all, she's also overweight and dark haired just like the brother's wife - she's the same - and will do the same thing.
The man decides he now has nothing to lose.

Now, any questions as to why abuse happened?
sorry, when did the man abuse the woman? I see the emotional abuse of the woman, inciting a melt-down (my ex loved to do this to me, it made him feel so superior) but I guess I don't see where the man becomes an abuser. I guess because that's what the real abuser (the wife) would claim (just like my ex did, although I never got physical, I just screamed at him)? and because the man would seem out of control, of course the authorities would believe the abuser, who is usually adept at lying (as happened in my case).



southwestforests
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24 Jul 2009, 2:43 pm

bhetti wrote:
sorry, when did the man abuse the woman?

After the "nothing to lose" feeling hit, the man got physical in response, after all, he felt he now had nothing to lose whatever he did.

It is interesting that in the reading I have done on spousal abuse it is common, not always the case, but common for the women to throw words of ridicule and such and for the men to throw punches.
And that difference appears to simply be as a result of basic natural differences in the makeup and being of men and women.

Quote:
I see the emotional abuse of the woman, inciting a melt-down

The melt down was already happening to start with and the words then made it very much worse.

I thought I knew the couple this happened to pretty well.
Apparently there was quite a bit going on beneath the surface.

Both have since had counseling and their marriage is very much better now.
Definitely a good thing


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you feel a loss of energy, loss of power, a sense of spiritual deadness."
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Last edited by southwestforests on 24 Jul 2009, 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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24 Jul 2009, 2:54 pm

Quote:
they claimed that in order for it to be PTSD it has to be the result of a physically life-threatening experience.


I have to say that I have been told different by several psychiatrists and psychologists because I have been diagnosed with PTSD. Although in the majority of cases it is brought on by an extreme experience, in people with ASDs it can be brought on by something that most people would just try to ignore or forget about like being picked on at school. I can't remember which book I read that backed up that belief but there is one somewhere...

I have extreme flashbacks of the bullies all surrounding me and pinning me against the wall. I want to fight back but they kick me, push me and spit on me. I also have flashbacks about the time I was nearly set on fire by a bully, the time I was physically abused in a park, the time I was pushed off a bus by a yob and a car-crash caused by an idiot on his mobile. I suffer from panic attacks, palpitations, hallucinations, nightmares, physical sickness (rare) and have an overactive responce to potential dangers, even if the 'danger' doesn't really exist. It is absolutely horrific to suffer like this.


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24 Jul 2009, 4:26 pm

southwestforests wrote:
bhetti wrote:
sorry, when did the man abuse the woman?

After the "nothing to lose" feeling hit, the man got physical in response, after all, he felt he now had nothing to lose whatever he did.

It is interesting that in the reading I have done on spousal abuse it is common, not always the case, but common for the women to throw words of ridicule and such and for the men to throw punches.
And that difference appears to simply be as a result of basic natural differences in the makeup and being of men and women.


I think perhaps bhetti was trying to make the point that flipping out, possibly even to the point of attacking someone, in response to that person's continuous verbal abuse, shouldn't quite be considered abusing the person? I have to agree. People say all the time that there's no excuse for physical violence, and I'm not saying that it's a good thing, but there are also times when it's deliberately provoked, and that provoking shouldn't be excused either. Yes, there are abusers who will hurt people no matter what, and there are pacifists who will never hurt anybody, but the vast majority of people fall somewhere on a spectrum in-between.. And deliberate verbal abuse isn't appropriate either. There are very few people who can control their temper all the time no matter what anybody does to them.

Yes, hitting someone is wrong.. but continuously taunting someone until and telling them you can do anything to them and there's nothing they can do about it is abuse. It's hard to protect EVERYBODY, this is something we've come across before.. sociopaths are more convincing when they lie then autistics are telling the truth. So how is it possible to set it up so that autistics don't end up getting abused?



southwestforests
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24 Jul 2009, 5:27 pm

Maggiedoll wrote:
There are very few people who can control their temper all the time no matter what anybody does to them.

From what I've seen, pretty much anyone can do that - after they're in a box 6 feet under. :wink: :lol:


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24 Jul 2009, 7:31 pm

talking about psyichal abuse in such a lasse fair way is quite disrespectful or to turn round saying ya know what causes it so in a way of defense towards the evil b**tard that did it in the first place
y mother was psyichally abused by my biological father and s was my sister by her lover but my mother n case was simply falling out of love and considering and forwarding divorce my father did not like that at all ad constantly beat her and played mind games with her, one scene I remember well as a very young child was when he beat her with a chair and smashed her n with a chir leg, just for merely passing through a room

Abusive relationships are incredibly traumatic for everyone they should only be talked about in conidence of the other party not be challenged as it is something not many people would lie about

I personally feel for all those abused and comme them for their confidence and their bonce bacability fromsuch a horrible point
this is not to all mmbers but just a point



mechanicalgirl39
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25 Jul 2009, 3:28 pm

southwestforests wrote:
I can tell you one thing what can cause a man to abuse a woman :arrow:

The man with undiagnosed Asperger's is having a meltdown.
The woman he is married to is making fun of him for it.
The man asks repeatedly for the woman to stop ridiculing him.
The woman waves her finger in the man's face and says "I'll use ridicule whenever I want to. I'll keep using ridicule. And you'll just learn to live with it"

The man remembers that his brother's wife went from ridiculing the brother to taking a knife to try to kill the brother.
The man remembers all the classmates, co-workers, bosses, parents, who have made fun of him throughout his life.
The man feels his worst nightmare has just come true - his helpmate, his love, his shelter, has just torn him down, destroyed and devalued him, in the worst way possible. And may go the same way as his brother's wife - after all, she's also overweight and dark haired just like the brother's wife - she's the same - and will do the same thing.
The man decides he now has nothing to lose.

Now, any questions as to why abuse happened?


I'm cold blooded, I know, but I would side with the man there.


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26 Jul 2009, 10:31 am

mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
southwestforests wrote:
I can tell you one thing what can cause a man to abuse a woman :arrow:

The man with undiagnosed Asperger's is having a meltdown.
The woman he is married to is making fun of him for it.
The man asks repeatedly for the woman to stop ridiculing him.
The woman waves her finger in the man's face and says "I'll use ridicule whenever I want to. I'll keep using ridicule. And you'll just learn to live with it"

The man remembers that his brother's wife went from ridiculing the brother to taking a knife to try to kill the brother.
The man remembers all the classmates, co-workers, bosses, parents, who have made fun of him throughout his life.
The man feels his worst nightmare has just come true - his helpmate, his love, his shelter, has just torn him down, destroyed and devalued him, in the worst way possible. And may go the same way as his brother's wife - after all, she's also overweight and dark haired just like the brother's wife - she's the same - and will do the same thing.
The man decides he now has nothing to lose.

Now, any questions as to why abuse happened?


I'm cold blooded, I know, but I would side with the man there.


that is very complex. i don't know if hitting her is justified, but it's understandable (if that makes sense.) i think this couple would have to separate for both members to live fairly sanely. the woman's verbal abuse seems very ugly to me. it just seems chaotic all around.

i hope the man separates from the situation.



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26 Jul 2009, 11:01 am

southwestforests wrote:
Maggiedoll wrote:
There are very few people who can control their temper all the time no matter what anybody does to them.

From what I've seen, pretty much anyone can do that - after they're in a box 6 feet under. :wink: :lol:


Heh.. that's true I guess.
There's a point where emotional/verbal abuse becomes as bad as physical abuse.. well depending on the severity of each. Especially if the perpetrator of the non-physical abuse prevents the person they're abusing from leaving the situation. (Or would that actually be physical abuse. If someone is verbally abusing someone, and then physically gets in the way of the person's attempt to go somewhere else, that it turning it physical, even if they don't touch the person. Blocking exits could also bring up trauma issues for a lot of people. Actually, would that be considered illegal imprisonment?)

Yea, I guess the main thing I'm referring to is if someone is physically prevented from removing themselves from an extremely verbally abusive situation. I'm not defending abusers at all.. just trying to define what constitutes abuse.. It's difficult to define and prove who the abuser actually was in some situations, I guess.
A lot of abused men have trouble ever getting it recognized or being believed even if they do try to tell somebody. It may be less common, sometimes women do abuse men.
It's not right for ANYBODY to be abused.



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26 Jul 2009, 11:17 am

Maggiedoll wrote:
I think perhaps bhetti was trying to make the point that flipping out, possibly even to the point of attacking someone, in response to that person's continuous verbal abuse, shouldn't quite be considered abusing the person? I have to agree. People say all the time that there's no excuse for physical violence, and I'm not saying that it's a good thing, but there are also times when it's deliberately provoked, and that provoking shouldn't be excused either. Yes, there are abusers who will hurt people no matter what, and there are pacifists who will never hurt anybody, but the vast majority of people fall somewhere on a spectrum in-between.. And deliberate verbal abuse isn't appropriate either. There are very few people who can control their temper all the time no matter what anybody does to them.

Yes, hitting someone is wrong.. but continuously taunting someone until and telling them you can do anything to them and there's nothing they can do about it is abuse. It's hard to protect EVERYBODY, this is something we've come across before.. sociopaths are more convincing when they lie then autistics are telling the truth. So how is it possible to set it up so that autistics don't end up getting abused?
yes Maggiedoll, that's exactly what I was saying. when one person is verbally abused to the point that they lose it, the one using words is the abuser. the abuser is the stronger person taking advantage of the weaker, and an autistic in melt-down is susceptible. even when we aren't in melt-down we're sensitive to abuse, and anyone who takes advantage of that knowingly is an ABUSIVE PERSON.

yes, hitting is wrong, and I disagree that women fight with words and men fight with fists. that's an ignorant stereotypical generalization and not based on any data that I've seen. I do know that men are less likely to report physical abuse, and women don't report verbal abuse. women tend not to leave verbally abusive relationships when they're financially dependent, and men tend not to leave abusive relationships when they have children they want to stay with. the problem is that the courts are not equipped to figure out when a relationship is abusive, nor do they really care. they operate the principle of occam's razor by deliberately wearing blinders, which is why courts are so slow to change, why domestic abuse is rampant and why some states don't even bother to investigate cases of abuse, since their laws are so archaic they wouldn't prosecute anyway.



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26 Jul 2009, 11:22 am

another little note... I was verbally abused by both my mother and my ex-husband so that my melt-downs gave them an excuse to hit me, even though I didn't hit them. I screamed and threw things (on the floor or at the wall, but not at them), but I didn't hit them (except my mom one time, but she was beating me in the head with her fists and I'm pretty sure I fought back).