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Fedaykin
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01 Feb 2008, 3:30 pm

These are the matching traits of his I've discovered so far:


Pronounced introvert, shy and silent, devoted to books early in life. Later on when he gets support from peers, he becomes very outspoken and defiant of authority.

Tendency towards self-harm and fights metaphorical demons, there's a famous account of him seeing the devil on the wall and throwing an ink bottle at him.

Stubborn and rigid, interpreting rules literally that are practiced only loosely.

Sense of justice in opposing the indulgences, and ignorant of the emotional upheaval he causes when he destroys the hopes of the people that have bought them thinking they actually have an impact on the afterlife. Him not being impressed with relics and indulgences is a sign of not imitating his surroundings.

Didn't seem to realize just what chaos his opposition to the Vatican and his writings on the Jews("On the Jews and their lies") would cause. Quite obsessed with Jews later in life. His fight for social justice plunged his society into anarchy, and his teachings contributed to the 30 years war, the third largest one in history.

As one of the most important people in Christian history, he's very learned of course, and takes it upon himself to translate the Bible alone, a huge undertaking.

Doesn't keep any of his views on religious matters in, such as which books in the canon are good and which ones aren't. Plenty of social faux pas. In spite of being very devoted to religion himself, he doesn't realize that his teachings will diminish the importance of religion.

When he's summoned to the Vatican, he doesn't realize he's expected to fill a subservient role and merely repent, but instead thought he was going to lecture the head of the church.

No relationships with women until late in life, and there's not much that indicates it was the priest obligations that stopped him.



SilverProteus
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01 Feb 2008, 3:46 pm

You listed traits of a very stubborn and definitely quirky person but none that seem exclusively Aspergian...

He might have been, but he might also have not.


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01 Feb 2008, 3:48 pm

As I recall, luthers Bible INCLUDES timothy!! !! ! That means that he knew that the Christian Bible almost FORBIDS celibate heads of the church! It's TRUE, look it up!

He had NO obligation to be celibate!

From 1timothy!

Quote:
3:1Faithful is the saying, If a man seeketh the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 3:2The bishop therefore must be without reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, orderly, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3:3no brawler, no striker; but gentle, not contentious, no lover of money; 3:4one that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 3:5(but if a man knoweth not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) 3:6not a novice, lest being puffed up he fall into the condemnation of the devil. 3:7Moreover he must have good testimony from them that are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. 3:8Deacons in like manner must be grave, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; 3:9holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. 3:10And let these also first be proved; then let them serve as deacons, if they be blameless. 3:11Women in like manner must be grave, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things. 3:12Let deacons be husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. 3:13For they that have served well as deacons gain to themselves a good standing, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus. 3:14These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly; 3:15but if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how men ought to behave themselves in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. 3:16And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness;



WilsonFisk
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01 Feb 2008, 5:11 pm

no



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01 Feb 2008, 5:39 pm

I have a love-hate relationship with Luther. I like Luther because he was trained as a nominalist, and I am strongly biased in favor of nominalists. :-) However, coming from a Jewish background, I find his antisemitism to be disdainful. :-(


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KimJ
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01 Feb 2008, 5:43 pm

I think there is a better speculation over Martin Luther being bipolar. He wasn't typical, that's for sure. There's a great movie dramatization on him, Luther.



pandabear
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01 Feb 2008, 7:50 pm

So much speculation on famous alleged Aspergians. Did Martin Luther satisfy two of A, one of B, and then C (below)? I don't see him as having a clinically significant impairment. Did other children pick on him when he was little?

I don't think that doing something that demonstrates amazing intellect (like translating the Bible) necessarily qualifies someone as Aspergian. I'm starting to suspect that we may be trying to flatter ourselves a bit.

A. Qualitative impairment in social interaction,
as manifested by at least two of the following:

1) marked impairment in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviours such
as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body postures, and gestures
to regulate social interaction;

2) failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental
level;

3) a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests or
achievments with other people (eg: by a lack of showing, bringing,
or pointing out objects of interest to other people);

4) lack of social or emotional reciprocity.

B. Restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behaviour, interests,
and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:

1) encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and
restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity
or focus;

2) apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines
or rituals;

3) stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (eg: hand or finger
flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements);

4) persistent preoccupation with parts of objects

C. The disturbance causes clinically significant impairment in social,
occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

D. There is no clinically significant general delay in language
(eg: single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by
age 3 years).

E. There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in
the development of age-appropriate self-help skills, adaptive behaviour
(other than social interaction), and curiosity about the environment in
childhood.

F. Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental
Disorder, or Schizophrenia.



9CatMom
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01 Feb 2008, 8:38 pm

I am Lutheran and am also a Scorpio, born the same day as Luther-November 10. It explains a lot.



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01 Feb 2008, 9:06 pm

Your theory is interesting and well reasoned, but alternative explanations exist for your proposed evidence:

Fedaykin wrote:
Pronounced introvert, shy and silent, devoted to books early in life. Later on when he gets support from peers, he becomes very outspoken and defiant of authority.

Although it is true that the majority of people with Asperger's syndrome have introverted personalities, some are nevertheless extraverted. In other words, you are looking at mere correlation. Whether introverted or extraverted, though, people with Asperger's syndrome show pronounced deficits in interpretting and normallyresponding in social contexts.
Fedaykin wrote:
Tendency towards self-harm and fights metaphorical demons, there's a famous account of him seeing the devil on the wall and throwing an ink bottle at him.

Self-harm in the autistic spectrum refers to a tendency to engage in self-stimulating mannerisms to either soothe or enhance sensory stimulation to the brain; it is a very much physical and unintentional kind of self-harm. The obsession with demons you speak of sounds more like an obsessive-compulsive disorder, namely scrupulosity. Seeing the devil on a wall is a visual hallucination, which is definitely not a symptom of Asperger's syndrome.
Fedaykin wrote:
Stubborn and rigid, interpreting rules literally that are practiced only loosely.

Sense of justice in opposing the indulgences, and ignorant of the emotional upheaval he causes when he destroys the hopes of the people that have bought them thinking they actually have an impact on the afterlife. Him not being impressed with relics and indulgences is a sign of not imitating his surroundings.

Criterion A.4. of DSM-IV-TR obsessive-compulsive personality disorder is: "is overconscientious, scrupulous, and inflexible about matters of morality, ethics, or values (not accounted for by cultural or religious identification) ". Adaptive obsessive-compulsive personality traits or the more disabling disorder are common in introverted and bright individuals. Idealists and political/social activists tend to have more than the usual helping of obsessive-compulsive personality traits.
Fedaykin wrote:
Didn't seem to realize just what chaos his opposition to the Vatican and his writings on the Jews("On the Jews and their lies") would cause. Quite obsessed with Jews later in life. His fight for social justice plunged his society into anarchy, and his teachings contributed to the 30 years war, the third largest one in history.

On a technical note, the Vatican really only became the Vatican during the reunification of Italy in the 19th century; before that the papacy directly controlled a large swath of central Italy called the Papal Estates. Basically the popes sequestered themselves in the Vatican when troops of the new Kingdom of Italy occupied Rome. Later on, a sovereign State of Vatican City was recognized. A more appropriate metonym would be Rome (analoguous to Washington for the federal government of the United States) or the Church or even just the Papacy (although the dogma Martin Luther protested were aspects of the Roman Catholic Church as a whole rather than those specifically of the popes).

Anyway a sort of revolutionary determination can lead a person to pursue their ideal in spite of its upheaving effects on greater society; indeed, this is what they want. When Luther nailed his 95 theses to the church door, he was making a dramatic gesture.
Fedaykin wrote:
As one of the most important people in Christian history, he's very learned of course, and takes it upon himself to translate the Bible alone, a huge undertaking.

I agree with you that Martin Luther's translation of the Bible into the vulgar is a classic sign of Asperger's syndrome: "encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus" (Criterion B.1 of DSM-IV-TR Asperger's disorder).
Fedaykin wrote:
[...] In spite of being very devoted to religion himself, he doesn't realize that his teachings will diminish the importance of religion.

No one can predict the longer course of history, savant or not. Besides, I don't think there's a complete consensus among historians that the Protestant Reformation was the direct (or only) cause of the decline of religious fervency in the West.
Fedaykin wrote:
When he's summoned to the Vatican, he doesn't realize he's expected to fill a subservient role and merely repent, but instead thought he was going to lecture the head of the church.

I would not expect someone who considers the pope decadent, guiding the Church down the wrong path, to be overly humble and submissive. He wants to assert his opinion and have his grievances addressed.
Fedaykin wrote:
No relationships with women until late in life, and there's not much that indicates it was the priest obligations that stopped him.

Most priests and monks take their vows of celibacy seriously. Is there strong evidence to indicate that it was not his vows that stopped him from philandering?



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01 Feb 2008, 11:20 pm

Not sure about Luther, but I bet there was a high concentration of aspies in the various monastic orders during the Middle Ages and Early Modern Period. Life in a monastery was highly structured, generally free of sensory things that could trigger meltdowns, and were often places of intellectual activity.


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