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Nan
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18 Sep 2008, 10:36 pm

Interesting supposition, so why not?

Zonder wrote:
Economist and conservative columnist Thomas Sowell published a book in 2001 titled Einstien Syndrome: Bright Children Who Talk Late. The book was inspired by his son who had a speech delay. Sewell, and a subsequent study, found a group of children who fit the following list of characteristics. He did not believe that these children had an Autism Spectrum Disorder, but others feel that it is just a renaming of a small group of high IQ children who have Asperger's.

Item for item, the following list describes me with one exception: I had a reading delay in addition to the speech delay. I have also learned social skills and do well in art.

Does anyone else have "Einstein Syndrome" characteristics?

Z PUTTING ASTERISKS TO THINGS THAT ~DO NOT~ MATCH ME


Family Pattern

Close relatives in analytical occupation (engineer, scientist, mathematician)
Close relatives who are musicians, sometimes professionally
Close Relatives Who talked late
Parents have high education level (59% four years of college) {My extended family was poor, nobody finished high school - except my dad who got a Masters in English only through the graces of the GI Bill after WWII - it was more poverty than ability that kept the rest from higher education.}

Individual Pattern

Majority are boys**
High IQ
High analytical and/or musical abilities
Extremely good memory (to photographic)
Unusual concentration and absorption in what they are doing
Highly selective interests with achievement in some areas and ineptness in others
Precocious ability to read and/or use numbers and/or use computers
Late in socializing with their peers
Delayed Speech Development (Two years and up for full sentences) {had a lot of ear infections that could have interfered with language development - they were pretty severe. this was a time when there were no antibiotics except penicillin, and I'm allergic to it.}
27 % of boys dislike meeting new people {am female, but hate meeting new people, really}
Late in being toilet trained *** {nope}
Fascinated with mechanical things
Like building things
Like putting puzzles together
Strong-willed


Overlaps with characteristics of intellectually gifted and autism spectrum.


“Poetry, art or social skills seldom figure prominently among their interests or achievements, either as children or adults.”


In response to other posts, people seem obsessed with quantifying and categorizing. Some of this, I suspect, comes from needing a perspective of a universe into which one can then place ones-self with some reasonable semblance of knowing where one "fits".

As to the name - the word Einstein is no longer just the name of a patent clerk who later proposed and won acclaim for several rather amazing mathematical propositions. It's now in the language, in daily use where I live, as meaning "someone exceptionally, unusually bright" and half the people who use it could neither tell you who the hell Einstein was nor anything he ever did. Just like a Nazi is no longer generally used here to mean a member of a political/social movement. It's general meaning now is someone who is oppressive and obsessive about rules and regulations.

Times change. Some things remain. People with massive insecurities trying to slam others to make themselves feel better will always be with us. NT and non-NT. Most people, I like to think, grow out of it someday. People getting together to compare notes is never a bad thing, I believe, if it helps put any kind of meaning on the chaos of life.



Last edited by Nan on 18 Sep 2008, 10:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.

zen_mistress
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18 Sep 2008, 10:46 pm

Poetry and art were my achievements as a child. And reading, spelling and grammar. But not social skills though.


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Drakilor
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19 Sep 2008, 1:13 pm

patternist wrote:
Drakilor wrote:
This conversation disturbs me greatly. It would seem that this thread is doomed to a life of masturbatory rituals of the ego, rather than as a platform for intelligent discussion on the book and its authorship.
Given the choice, I would traverse to the science convention rather than idle at the spot, observing name droppers associating themselves with celebrities.


Well....yes. But there's really nothing wrong with that. It's only an online forum, not the grand summary of all things that define us as people. I say indulge. Compare self to Einstein. Many here benefit from the self-esteem boost that gives.

It is most certainly wrong. Thinking of yourself as an equal to the great minds of the century is not only misleading, but it sets you up for an atrocious state of mind that can be very dangerous later on when you realize that no one likes self-proclaimed geniuses.
History tells us that living a life in a happy fantasy land can be very damaging.


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nirrti_rachelle
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19 Sep 2008, 1:51 pm

Inventor wrote:
Although identical to a condition that is reason to drug and oppress natives, they add a few key points, parents are educated, professionals, and have money=Einstein Syndrome.


Tell it! Tell it! :hail:


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Zonder
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19 Sep 2008, 2:33 pm

Nan wrote:
My extended family was poor, nobody finished high school - except my dad who got a Masters in English only through the graces of the GI Bill after WWII - it was more poverty than ability that kept the rest from higher education


Coal miners and dirt farmers here. My mom and dad (WWII GI Bill) were the first in the family to go to college. The criteria of high education seems pretty arbitrary and exclusive.

Z



Rainstorm5
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19 Sep 2008, 3:07 pm

I read somewhere that Einstein had problems counting small change from his pockets and couldn't tie his shoes very well, yet he could work out complex math problems in his head. Shouldn't these traits make him more of a very high-functioning autistic?


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9CatMom
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19 Sep 2008, 7:39 pm

I'm female and I talked early, but a lot of the other traits describe me. English was my second language, but I learned quickly and was reading at fourth grade level in first grade. I get obsessed with topics and research them thorougly. I was late at some self-help skills, such as toilet training and tying my shoes. I also have a high verbal I.Q.



AngelUndercover
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19 Sep 2008, 8:16 pm

I have:

Close relatives in analytical occupation (my dad's side of the family is full of engineers)
Close Relatives Who talked late (my dad)
Parents have high education level (both parents)
High IQ (not super-high, but above average; I'm not sure whether I should count this one or not)
High analytical and/or musical abilities (I have some musical talent, but don't like playing music very much so haven't really explored it; people have been telling me I have an analytical mind since I was a toddler)
Unusual concentration and absorption in what they are doing
Highly selective interests with achievement in some areas and ineptness in others
Precocious ability to read and/or use numbers and/or use computers (I'm average at math and computers, but was always better than average at reading)
Late in socializing with their peers
Strong-willed (depends on the situation)

I didn't talk late, though, so I'm not sure this "Einstein Syndrome" applies to me. And why is the new name needed? It sounds like AS/HFA to me.


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hale_bopp
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19 Sep 2008, 8:25 pm

My dad fits it. Me? Nah. I'm pretty mediocre.



Nan
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19 Sep 2008, 8:33 pm

Zonder wrote:
Nan wrote:
My extended family was poor, nobody finished high school - except my dad who got a Masters in English only through the graces of the GI Bill after WWII - it was more poverty than ability that kept the rest from higher education


Coal miners and dirt farmers here. My mom and dad (WWII GI Bill) were the first in the family to go to college. The criteria of high education seems pretty arbitrary and exclusive.

Z


Zonder, I work in higher education and have for years. I can say with authority that I've run across some of the least "overall" intelligent people on this planet wandering around in the halls of academe. I have also known some blue-collar types who were as well-, if not more, well-read and thoughtful than almost all of the individuals I meet on a daily basis. Yes, it's completely arbitrary.

Higher education has become middle-class finishing school. It was once the province of the rich, and now those who aspire to that flock to it in droves. It's an industry, complete with a rather impressive propaganda mill. There's a lot of good there, but there's a whole, whole lot of BS, too! :lol:



Zonder
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21 Sep 2008, 4:12 pm

Here is an interesting quote on evaluating and diagnosing autism spectrum disorder by Lorna Wing in an Autism Connect (United Kingdom) interview:

Lorna Wing wrote:
What we want to know is what makes this person tick in the way they are ticking? It’s fascinating disentangling; it’s a piece of detective work, how this person has reached this point.

It seems to us from our experience that it is far more important than deciding whether or not someone fits the classic criteria. We have come across a lot of people who don’t fit any of the classic criteria, but deep down they actually have poor development of their social understanding and their capacity for planning. These two things (they may not have anything else) in life are going to be hellishly difficult for them, and they’re going to get into all kinds of silly situations and terrible trouble, even legal trouble as a result. This, to us, is what matters.


Full interview at www.autismconnect.org/core_files/interv ... a_wing.htm

Z



Trident_infinity
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21 Sep 2008, 5:17 pm

Quote:
Family Pattern

Close relatives in analytical occupation (engineer, scientist, mathematician)
Close relatives who are musicians, sometimes professionally
Close Relatives Who talked late
Parents have high education level (59% four years of college)

Individual Pattern

Majority are boys
High IQ
High analytical and/or *musical abilities*
Extremely good memory (to photographic)
Unusual concentration and absorption in what they are doing
Highly selective interests with achievement in some areas and ineptness in others
Precocious ability to read and/or use numbers and/or use computers
Late in socializing with their peers
Delayed Speech Development (Two years and up for full sentences)
27 % of boys dislike meeting new people
Late in being toilet trained
Fascinated with mechanical things
Like building things
Like putting puzzles together
Strong-willed


Overlaps with characteristics of intellectually gifted and autism spectrum.

“Poetry, *art* or social skills seldom figure prominently among their interests or achievements, either as children or adults.”


Sorry but this article is complete BS. For one music is considered an art form, though it's hard to determine whether they're referring to the visual arts or not.



Anemone
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22 Sep 2008, 9:51 am

It has nothing to do with music being an art. Music skills and math skills tend to go together, and it's speculated they share something in brain development or structure. In a way, music is as analytical (in the sense used in the book) as math, whereas visual arts are more visual-spatial rather than logical-analytical.



mokiegator
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07 Jun 2009, 1:28 am

Somebody on the board wrote that what Thomas Sowell doesn't understand is the autistic spectrum.

No, that is exactly what he is not saying. He is saying it might look like autism when kids are 2-3 because they can't talk, but the Einstein Syndrome children grow up to not have autism

There is a whole lot of misdiagnosis going on here because everyone is on high alert saying that a child not responding to their name is a "symptom of autism" when actuality its also a symptom of sensory processing disorder.

I believe whole heartedly that all of the children described in that book are actually high IQ Sensory Processing Disorder children, and some occupational therapy could have solved a lot of their problems.

I agree with the criticism of the book - that it doesn't delve into the neurological components of the children not talking, like sensory processing.



WoodenNickel
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07 Jun 2009, 10:14 am

Zonder wrote:
Family Pattern

Close relatives in analytical occupation (engineer, scientist, mathematician) *
Close relatives who are musicians, sometimes professionally *
Close Relatives Who talked late ?
Parents have high education level (59% four years of college) * (1)

Individual Pattern

Majority are boys *
High IQ *
High analytical and/or musical abilities *
Extremely good memory (to photographic) *
Unusual concentration and absorption in what they are doing *
Highly selective interests with achievement in some areas and ineptness in others * (selectivity has diminished over time)
Precocious ability to read and/or use numbers and/or use computers *
Late in socializing with their peers *
Delayed Speech Development (Two years and up for full sentences) ?
27 % of boys dislike meeting new people
Late in being toilet trained ?
Fascinated with mechanical things *
Like building things *
Like putting puzzles together *
Strong-willed *


Overlaps with characteristics of intellectually gifted and autism spectrum.


“Poetry, art or social skills seldom figure prominently among their interests or achievements, either as children or adults.”

* means yes
? means unsure

Move over, Albert! :wink:



Kajjie
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07 Jun 2009, 10:51 am

I have close relatives who talked late, high IQ, high analytical abilities, strong willed. Used to have the good concentration, highly selective interests and a precocious ability to read and do maths.

I wouldn't say I fit it. I didn't learn to speak late, and I was always sociable just socially inappropriate. I'm not really a mathmatician-engineer sort of person.

I wonder if my uncle (the close relative who learned to speak late) may fit this!