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killeroctopus345
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02 Dec 2016, 9:17 pm

Zonder wrote:
Economist and conservative columnist Thomas Sowell published a book in 2001 titled Einstien Syndrome: Bright Children Who Talk Late. The book was inspired by his son who had a speech delay. Sewell, and a subsequent study, found a group of children who fit the following list of characteristics. He did not believe that these children had an Autism Spectrum Disorder, but others feel that it is just a renaming of a small group of high IQ children who have Asperger's.

Item for item, the following list describes me with one exception: I had a reading delay in addition to the speech delay. I have also learned social skills and do well in art.

Does anyone else have "Einstein Syndrome" characteristics?

Z


Family Pattern

Close relatives in analytical occupation (engineer, scientist, mathematician)
Close relatives who are musicians, sometimes professionally
Close Relatives Who talked late
Parents have high education level (59% four years of college)

Individual Pattern

Majority are boys
High IQ
High analytical and/or musical abilities
Extremely good memory (to photographic)
Unusual concentration and absorption in what they are doing
Highly selective interests with achievement in some areas and ineptness in others
Precocious ability to read and/or use numbers and/or use computers
Late in socializing with their peers
Delayed Speech Development (Two years and up for full sentences)
27 % of boys dislike meeting new people
Late in being toilet trained
Fascinated with mechanical things
Like building things
Like putting puzzles together
Strong-willed


Overlaps with characteristics of intellectually gifted and autism spectrum.


“Poetry, art or social skills seldom figure prominently among their interests or achievements, either as children or adults.”



I am still trying to figure my neurological mess out. (forgive me, it is very expensive) However, I will say this. A lot of this stuff comes down to economic privilege. I am not trying to be a mean feminist either. I come from a wealthy family. I had a LOT of behavioral and academic problems as a child/teen, but I went to private school so I never got put in special ed. My private schools did not have it. I did get a lot of extra help from my teachers and they helped me pursue my special interests. I have a high IQ, but I also was in an environment that nurtured me and "forgave" my behavioral problems.

Also, Thomas Sowell is a prominent conservative writer. Conservatives are often very prejudiced against people on the spectrum. Michael Savage even said that autism doesn't exist. Anyways, if Sowell admitted that his child had autism, the conservative pundit world would chastise him. I was raised in an extremely conservative, fundamentalist Christian family and I know the culture. They are extremely prejudiced against a lot of different groups. Trust me on this one, I'm gay.

These kids are on the spectrum and Sowell is trying to not stir the pot with his conservative bros.



IstominFan
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03 Dec 2016, 10:54 am

I believe many children are wrongly labeled with some condition because they exhibit some markers of it. In my case, I was mislabeled as hyperactive because I had a high activity level as a child. Also, I was labeled a "slow learner" by my kindergarten teacher because I came from an ESL background. A year later, I was reading at fourth grade level in English. My social issues persisted throughout my life, even though my academic achievement was strong. It has been only in the last couple of years that I have really begun to improve socially. AS was not formally recognized as a diagnosis until 1994, and I didn't even read about it until 1997, long after I had finished my education.



Florent_P
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03 Dec 2016, 11:29 am

killeroctopus345 wrote:
Also, Thomas Sowell is a prominent conservative writer. Conservatives are often very prejudiced against people on the spectrum. Michael Savage even said that autism doesn't exist. Anyways, if Sowell admitted that his child had autism, the conservative pundit world would chastise him. I was raised in an extremely conservative, fundamentalist Christian family and I know the culture. They are extremely prejudiced against a lot of different groups. Trust me on this one, I'm gay.

These kids are on the spectrum and Sowell is trying to not stir the pot with his conservative bros.


Sowell is not denying the existence of autism / Asperger's syndrome, I think he's much smarter than his conservative "bros", he makes in his book a list of examples in which talent comes with severe social impairment and says these ARE autistic ; his point is that in some cases, some social impairment noted in children will disappear with age, while talent will stay ; he underlines a number of cases which have the common point of being late-talking savants. Indeed the case of Einstein himself, somewhat diagnosed as having Asperger's, does not concord with a diagnosis of Asperger's as Einstein was very skilled socially when he was an adult ; he was even a machist (see his words on Marie Curie).
Camarata also says that diagnosing Asperger's in a late-talker is "always an error" - which I think I can agree with. I understand Asperger's Syndrome as a syndrome in which the ability to speak, to manipulate words very well, compensates for low social skills (so the early-talking fits really with the idea of the syndrome, it seems to me a crucial element). I was diagnosed Asperger's while I talked late, and now I know that I have some very strong social skills which I didn't thought I had at the time of the diagnosis, which is why I think Sowell is right.


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03 Dec 2016, 1:24 pm

Hmm, let's see..

High IQ - mine's average and below in some areas

High analytical and/or musical abilities - I can play the keyboard with one hand. I don't know what analytical means.

Extremely good memory (to photographic) - I don't have an extremely good memory

Unusual concentration and absorption in what they are doing - Quite the opposite. I'm easily distracted, even when doing something I enjoy.

Highly selective interests with achievement in some areas and ineptness in others - I've always struggled, even with my own interests.

Precocious ability to read and/or use numbers and/or use computers - Nah. My maths is exceptionally poor, my reading is OK but I do sometimes miss out words or read words that aren't there, and I'm not exceptionally good with computers, being so I've given my poor laptop loads of viruses. My writing and spelling skills are the best.

Late in socializing with their peers - I was average with all that, until I was about 5-6, but I didn't fall behind exactly, I just became socially awkward.

Delayed Speech Development (Two years and up for full sentences) - I didn't have any speech delays
27 % of boys dislike meeting new people - I'm not a boy

Late in being toilet trained - I was easy to toilet train, and was fully toilet trained before I was 2.

Fascinated with mechanical things - Never been really

Like building things - Not particularly. I struggled with building Legos as a kid.

Like putting puzzles together - I always struggled with that too.

Strong-willed - As in confidence? I don't have confidence, otherwise I wouldn't be as underemployed as I am.


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03 Dec 2016, 2:06 pm

It's been my latest fear that I was one of those kids labeled as a child when I could have just been slow and slow to mature and I might have just been a messed up child and it was other kids and the school that pushed me to a AS diagnoses and other labels. But yet I hear "difficult" children can also have disabilities like with language and learning and their personality overlaps with autism or ADD or sensory processing disorder. I also think my own personality pushed me to an AS diagnoses. All the combination of my environment and my personality pushed me to it. All this over diagnoses I have been hearing and it's not anything new because it happened in the 1980's too because that is what I read in The Difficult Child and this was the 1989 edition. The book has been revised several times throughout the tears and is still in print. It was first published in 1985. I also have the belief that more disabilities have been created and more people have them today because expectations have changed. You now need social skills for employment, education system has changed and more kids are visual now so more learning disabilities right there, kids are expected to sit still longer and there is less recess I hear, work expectations have changed too so more people have anxiety and getting diagnosed as having the disorder. I also think the autism spectrum has stretched too to include more people on it.

No I do not fit Einstein syndrome. I at first thought this was an actual condition when I first saw the book cover in high school and it was talking about kids with problems but this book is also one of those books that talks about over diagnoses and "normal" kids being labeled with a disorder.


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03 Dec 2016, 2:08 pm

Zonder wrote:
Does anyone else have "Einstein Syndrome" characteristics?


I fit quite a lot of them, but then a lot are standard autistic traits.

Yes:
Close relatives in analytical occupation (engineer, scientist, mathematician)
Close relatives who are musicians, sometimes professionally
High IQ
High analytical and/or musical abilities
Extremely good memory (to photographic)
Unusual concentration and absorption in what they are doing
Highly selective interests with achievement in some areas and ineptness in others
Precocious ability to read and/or use numbers and/or use computers
27 % of boys dislike meeting new people
Fascinated with mechanical things
Like building things
Like putting puzzles together
Strong-willed

No:
Close Relatives Who talked late
Parents have high education level (59% four years of college)
Majority are boys
Late in socializing with their peers (didn't have much choice, I've regressed in this respect nowadays)
Delayed Speech Development (Two years and up for full sentences)
Late in being toilet trained

Quote:
Poetry, art or social skills seldom figure prominently among their interests or achievements, either as children or adults.”

^^
Social skills have never been an interest or achievement of mine, but art and poetry are. While I have capacity for both Arts and Sciences, the latter is usually much harder for me to [want to] focus on, I don't know why. I think it might be a learned aversion rather than an innate one (I link maths/science to my dad, therefore it stresses me out), because I actually really like numbers and patterns when I get to working on them.



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03 Dec 2016, 5:51 pm

racheypie666 wrote:


Delayed speech development seems crucial in the "Einstein Syndrome". The absence of significant social difficulties at adult age is also important. The first one differs from Asperger's in that Asperger Syndrome frequently equals early speech development ; the second one differs from all forms of autism.


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racheypie666
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03 Dec 2016, 6:12 pm

^^ Hmm well I didn't have delayed speech development. I didn't talk much and I never cried, even as a baby, but I could talk, I just didn't unless engaged. I definitely have persisting social difficulties though, no doubt about that :lol: .

So 'Einstein Syndrome' is a classification of autism in the same way Asperger's is/was? Interesting, though I had thought the medical community was trying to get away from the Asperger's/autism divide and unify them as variants of the same condition.



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05 Dec 2016, 10:16 am

I didn't talk late, but I did come from an ESL background. (My first language was German, and I had no speech delay in my first language.)

I could think of a lot of famous people, including some tennis players, who have some of the familial and individual traits associate with this syndrome.

Professional musicians in their background: Denis Istomin (Uncle Mikhail Istomin is a professional cellist) and Rafael Nadal (Grandfather Rafa is a symphony conductor)

High IQ-Janko Tipsarevic

French tennis player Marion Bartoli has a father who is a doctor, has a tested IQ of 175, is an artist and a cat lover.



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05 Dec 2016, 11:45 am

I did talk late and had a developmental delay but I never had any of the gifts and I wasn't gifted. But I did have a talent for writing if that counts. And my IQ is average. I am rather dull because I don't have any special gifts that could lead me in life for a career. I did like putting puzzles together and now I mostly spend my time on the computer and playing my 3DS for hobbies. I do have relatives who talked late but I don't think they have Einstein syndrome. I was late in socializing and I was out of diapers at 39 months.

I don't think my brother would fit it either even though his IQ is high and he is gifted but he doesn't have any special talents nor did he talk late, in fact he talked early.


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Musicality
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05 Dec 2016, 7:45 pm

Hello, I actually do fit all of these criteria so I just created this account to post this. When I was a child I spent a lot of time stuck inside of myself thinking about things and trying to understand them even though I was silent. I feel like everybody around me thought I wasn't as "there" as I actually was. It's almost as though I have no automatic behavioral programming and had to manually make myself do things like eye contact but I'm sure everyone on this forum can relate to this.

I have very little social skills or ability to get people to like me, but I can program well and I'm almost on the level of being a musical virtuosio after teaching myself. I feel like the teaching mechanisms of the brain are actually something you can learn to improve, like, when I am practicing playing music I don't don't do scales or excersizes a lot but I'll conciously try to imbue a new thing into my playing, such as volume control, pitch control, smother rhythm styles etc. What you are doing is 'offloading' aspects of playing into your automatic responses, which frees up your executive functioning to imbue new aspects, these new aspects are through repetition offloaded into automatic functioning. You can imbue a new aspect a day by playing for more than half of the day (to the point that when you go to bed you can feel a virtual guitar/whatever strumming/sounding inside your head).

This is getting a little off topic, but there is a 'musical fabric' one must form in their head and allow themselves and their entire body to flow with in order to play music on a high level (the grace you see in a violinist's movements is exactly correlated to the movement of their mental fabric). There are real structures that arise out of good music playing, sound driven shapes. Most people can't see this aspect but if they hear it they'll know that it's beautiful automatically.

Neuraltypicals are automatically able to follow this fabric without themselves being cogniciant of it. Listen to them speak and you'll see the flow and smoothness of their words and how they flow musically, and how when someone replies to another they come in on a semiharmonic pitch and with the same rhythm. They really care more about you entertaining them by 'singing' with them than any sort of information transfer and the topic of discussion is, while still important, not the number one priority to them, it's move about delivery. That's why autistic people are often ignored or shoved out of groups because they can't automatically flow with the conversational fabric.

Anyway, I used to want to be normal, to try to act normal, but on an LSD trip I realized that that was never what god, chance, the universe, etc etc whatever had me born for. I can see the the condesending nature of some people my roommates bring over or I meet, but now that I've taught myself these things I can either make them start to respect me or become flustered or jelous instead of just looking down on me, which is better but still sh***y. I also think neurotypicals are offended somehow if you don't dress like them or groom your hair but it doesn't really matter they don't know who you are



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05 Dec 2016, 9:09 pm

I may of talked alittle latter than average but I am NOT very intelligent & I don't have any of the stereotyped Aspie skills & strengths


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06 Dec 2016, 6:46 pm

I have all of the secondary list. but not all of the first however their may a reason for that.

What i find interesting is that without people who are like Einstein
the human race may not have developed so quickly as instead of staying in and developing mind blowing and in some cases innovative (or genius) intellectual and creative works

they would spent most their time socializing, trying to maximize their potential for procreation and mindless hedonism (not that i am completely against either of these enjoyable pass times).

but arguably the human race would not have developed so quick.
So, autism may be something very positive.