NLD Information and Support Thread

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I'm really good at those as well. My language arts skills have always been through the roof, but I am just horrible at math!

I'm a new poster, but this looks like a good thread to start with. I'm a diagnosed Aspie, but I've seriously contemplated whether NVLD
is the more appropriate diagnosis for me.

My math skills are pretty bad. In college, I needed a tutor for all my math classes, even pre-algebra. In high school, I needed an assistant to accompany me to every class because I would not do my work and had an extremely hard time paying attention, though I was never diagnosed with ADD. Science is also a little difficult for me, but not nearly as hard as math.

I have some very good verbal skills and I've been told constantly in college that I'm a good writer, which is the main reason I'm majoring in English. My goal is to hopefully be published in some form for non-fiction writing. My reading skills, on the other hand, are a little different. I'm a painfully slow reader, and can sometimes read a sentence five times and not "get it." However, I still like to read, and my reading skills have improved over time. I'm puzzled why one of the characteristics of NVLD is having bad writing skills, as you'd think that would be a NVLDe'rs strength, according to the diagnostic criteria. It's certainly true in my case.

The only main symptom of NVLD that definitely would not apply to me is the lack of an obsession. I'm extremely narrow in my interests, and often have routines involving them that I must adhere to, or I don't feel right. For example, I feel like I have to listen to music for about three hours at the same time every day, and If I don't , I won't feel satisfied.

I did have good early spelling skills also. There seems to be very little difference between AS and NVLD anyway, so I don't know why they're viewed as seperate disorders. I'd like to see NVLD included in the new DSM, however, because there seems to be a lack of clarity in the diagnostic criteria applied. I could probably apply for a diagnosis, but it was never suggested. And it sort of puzzles me why someone who is good at math could apply for a diagnosis of NVLD, as I figured that was one of the main deficits they experienced. Like another poster said, the lack of research on this subject is probably why there is such a lack of clarity in who is diagnosed, who isn't, and what criteria to go by.

I am not the person who wrote the post you responded to but I am throwing my $0.02 in anyway because I am very curious about the executive function that I quite obviously lack.
I would like to know more about what is meant by executive function. Doesn't it have to do with automatically doing the things you need to do before doing what you want to do ? Sort of like being on automatic pilot while doing all the boring stuff, maybe ?
It would fall in with visual spatial because it is part of organization and seeing "the big picture".
I think this is a huge difference that people with NVLD and Aspies have in common that sets us apart frpm NT's. We share the same perspective, freedom and the hardships. Life is very, very difficult for people who have impaired executive functioning. Especially as you get older and there is no one to shelter you.
It also effects us socially. We see people as individuals not as stereotypes because we lack the organization, executive function thing and I think we do see the big picture, we ust aren't blindsided by it.

I recently took part in an Autism study because I thought I might be on the spectrum. The result of my evaluation (I'm beginning to realize that it wasn't exactly a full diagnosis) was that I was told I have NLD, not AS. (Obviously, these researchers were of the school that doesn't consider NLD to be on the spectrum. I'm still not sure how I feel about that.) The NLD diagnosis does fit me pretty closely - in school and college, I did really well in English, foreign languages, history, philosophy, and music, but terribly in math. I loved science in elementary and middle school, but by high school, when we started put equations to facts, I started doing poorly. I love computers and have tried to learn programming, but my poor math skills always get in the way. I didn't learn to drive a car until I was 30, still can't catch a ball, and I'm a real klutz, with very limited depth-perception. I can remember names, but I'm pretty much face-blind. My handwriting is terrible, and although I was reading full-length novels by age 6, I had an impossible time learning to write - at the time, my teachers and psychologists suspected dyslexia (at first), or (a little later), some sort of visual condition - but actually my eyesight wasn't bad as a kid. I memorize facts and pick up languages very easily, but "practical" stuff - time management, money - I'm horrible with. I've been accused of being a procrastinator or lazy my whole life. I'm not particularly literal - if anything, I think I can be too abstract - and I'm very sarcastic, but I have trouble with "dumb" humor, like Will Ferrell or Adam Sandler. I can be a little too trusting or naive at times (this was more noticeable when I was younger). I can be very empathetic, especially toward animals and oppressed people (although I hope that NLD isn't the only reason I'm a vegetarian and believe in non-violence!) I think I have the full range of emotions, although I don't really understand wrath or the desire for vengeance. Aside from the 30-point disparity between performance and verbal IQ, the main reason that I was seen as having NLD and not AS is that I can make small talk, and I'm reasonably social. I don't make eye contact, however, and I can be very awkward in social settings, especially in large groups or around people I don't know.
Some things that make me think I still might be more on the AS side, however, are that I do have very intense special interests, and I do stim. As I mentioned earlier, I don't make eye contact easily or often, although I can force myself to do so if I try hard enough. While I don't think I have much in common with HFA's, I am probably a lot like many (mild to moderate) Aspies - or at least, that's the impression I get. I can function in society - I'm 33, married, with a graduate degree, a full-time job, and a car, but a lot of stuff just goes over my head, and I'm more or less alright with that. My wife handles the finances and the calendar - I'm alright with that as well.

Here's LD Online's definition of executive function: http://www.ldonline.org/article/24880 It takes a practical approach, which is good, because there are as many definitions of executive function in psychology research as there are research, it seems. However, key components include:

* working memory (the ability to hold information in mind while manipulating it, like remembering that you are calculating 15% of 34.75 while figuring out the tip)
* response inhibition-the ability to prevent yourself from carrying out an action you were about to take, or stopping yourself in the middle. One of the more consistent weaknesses in ADHD.
* planning for the future-some patients with frontal lobe damage don't feel grief when someone dies because they can't imagine a future without them; lose high-powered careers because they no longer set goals for themselves, etc. There's a paper proposing a theory about executive function and the frontal lobe called "The Escape from Linear Time," based around this aspect of executive function.
* putting "mental energy" where it is most needed, and not putting it where it's not needed. (This actually shows up in brain scans--in healthy people, the frontal lobe activates more when the task is difficult, and it makes task-relevant areas activate more, too).

I'm a big fan of this particular model: http://www.drthomasebrown.com/brown_model/index.html IMO, it doesn't contradict brain research, yet is grounded in what people with poor executive function actually experience. A word to the wise, it's not "the" authoritative model, but AFAIK, there is no one authoritative model of executive function.

Willard describes people with poor executive function as being like "big 12 year olds," no matter how old they are. There's some truth to this.

I ran across it in "NLD from the Inside Out" (which is an excellent book).



Well, I guess if you look at milder problems with organization (such as lack of transition sentences), that is the one major ongoing problems I had with papers in college and grad school. My papers definitely weren't "laundry lists" though, and my writing was highly praised by my professors. HOWEVER, though I always thought my transitions were adequate, I frequently got comments that I needed to add "transition sentences". When I was younger (middle school and younger), the main problem was always with switching between different tenses (e.g. from past to present) frequently during essays and creative writing. I don't know if that is likely related at all to NLD though.

I'm not sure why this criteria tends to pop up. I ran across something though which at least provides an explanation for why NLDers might have trouble with reading comprehension (which many people on here say they have no difficulty with):

"In addition, over time, reading/decoding skills are superior to those required in reading/understanding. This finding is thought to reflect in part the difficulties inherent in reading for meaning (e.g. abstracting relevant vs. irrelevant details)."

LostinSpace wrote

I'm one of those NLDers who apparently has no trouble with reading comprehension. All my WAIS comprehension subtest scores are in the above-
average range. It's all the other problems I have which DON'T show up on the
IQ/neuropsych evals (especially the long-term memory deficits I believe I
have) which are the crux of the matter for me. I don't think i've encountered
an NLDer yet who complains of these problems, at least ones as serious as
I believe mine are. Needless to say though....any long-term memory deficits
I might have may not be related to *my* NLD in any way.

I thought I should post this here:

I have a blog about NLD, and for a final project at school I've decided to open up my blog and ask other people with NLD/AS/other LDs to contribute posts. I want to give other people the chance to write about their lives, seeing as there are so few first-hand accounts of people with NLD, and people post such interesting things on this thread!

If any of you are interested, let me know!! I'd reallllllllly appreciate it

and here's my blog: http://onefootonthespectrum.wordpress.com/

What a great idea! I'd love to contribute, although I may not have time immediately. I also look forward to reading what other people have to say.

"One foot on the spectrum" is a great way to put it. As a person diagnosed with NVLD but not AS, this is very much how I see myself. There are some respects in which I very much resemble people here with diagnosed AS, and some things they talk about that I've never experienced. I often feel halfway between the NT world and the AS world, although I definitely feel less out of place at WP For example, when NTs here talk about their relationships with people with AS and vice versa, I feel like I can understand both sides' feelings and perspectives.

Yay! Would you have time by Wednesday? That's when my project is due Or if you know anyone else who would like to contribute...

Yeah, I very much feel as if I'm not NT, but not quite AS- although I identify with about 95% of what people talk about on here. It's a weird in-between.

I could probably fit something in before wednesday. I'm afraid the only other people I know with NVLD are on this thread.

Just to kick-start the writing process a bit, what's your project about? Any issues related to NVLD/learning disabilites you'd particularly like to know more about? What sort of firsthand experiences do you think aren't written about enough? Thanks.

Also, how can I send you the post once I've written it? Will I get posting access (not sure how this'll work since I'm not on Wordpress), or will I email it to you, or...?

Ahhhh, thank you! my teacher wants me to intentionally keep the guidelines vague, so you can basically write about whatever you want whatever comes to mind first when thinking about your experience with NLD is probably a good place to start

you can send it to me via message on here, or I think I can make you a contributor on my blog if you give me your email address. whichever you'd like.

Shoot, I just ran across your post, InaWoodenHouse. I guess your project was due last week.

WoodenHouse, I haven't read here for a long time and just happened to be passing by. I left a note on your blog. This is a time of great change for you, but you seem to be handling it well.

Best of luck.