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22 Dec 2008, 8:07 am

I felt like I was guessing many of them, but some of them did feel quite obvious. My score was 29. I don't really observe peoples facial expressions, and I never look at their face in a conversation. I used to watch a lot of television though, and I've watched a decent bit of anime too. Perhaps I've learned something, or I got lucky guesses.

Edit - I'd like to note that even if I did look at facial expressions, I probably wouldn't interpret them or be able to interpret them without a multiple choices attached to their face.



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22 Dec 2008, 8:13 am

27


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22 Dec 2008, 8:15 am

My score varies whenever I take the test. Now what does that mean? Now it's just 25, but I swear it was a lot higher when I took this test last time.


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22 Dec 2008, 9:26 am

pensieve wrote:
25. I never can read a persons eyes in real life because I think I simply don't spend that much time reading body language. Who can think of that stuff when you are trying to come up with things to say?


You bring out the biggest difficulty for Aspies (as I understand it from my AS son)--while NTs typically don't have to think too much about reading the body language or what to say for that matter, Aspies do. I imagine it to be like a first time visitor to New York trying to catch a subway train. By the time he/she figures out how to catch it, it's already gone. Is this correct from your perspective?


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22 Dec 2008, 10:05 am

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22 Dec 2008, 10:16 am

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22 Dec 2008, 10:25 am

10 i dont look people in the eye at all or pick up body language


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22 Dec 2008, 10:43 am

I got 25, but i have the same issue with this test, as I did the first one. First of all, it's multiple choice. If I had to wing it on my own without 4 choices to choose from I wouldn't have picked hardly any of them right. I tried to guess before looking at the possible answers, and once again, most of the time my first reaction to what the eyes were saying wasn't even listed as an option. Not to mention the fact that I had to take lots of small glances, because even pictures of eyes creep me out, especially the angry/hostile looking ones. In real life someone isn't going to hold their expression while I look up, down and back again while trying to decipher their expressions, and feelings.



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22 Dec 2008, 10:56 am

27. The eyebrows meant more to me than the actual eyes themselves.

However, I once did this emotional recognition test where they used the whole face, but only flashed the expression for less than one second, then asked you to identify it. Absolutely bombed it. I assume that if this test was strictly timed, then we'd be seeing much lower scores.



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22 Dec 2008, 4:15 pm

30.

I judged a lot by the direction of gaze and tilt of the head. And I would have gotten nowhere without the multiple choice, because most of the time my first response wasn't even a word. Just a feeling-impression.



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22 Dec 2008, 4:29 pm

I got a 28. However, I spent a bit of time analyzing many of the expressions...(don´t know how long you´re supposed to take?) Well, I decided to take my time. Doing it split second though? Hmmmm. On many of the questions, I felt like I was making a guess, based on logic....(I guess my logic is good, huh!) And, yes, I agree that the multiple choice thing really helps...it points you in the right direction. (For some of them, I would have said "none of the above"! However, having a list of possible answers does point one in the right direction, doesn´t it; it makes it easier to deduce the correct answer).

Sort of reminds me of what I do now with movies. If I think there´s a non-verbal section that I didn´t quite get, I rewind it over and over again; as I keep watching the scene repeatedly, I pick up more and more things, and finally figure out what is going on. It´s pretty cool, it feels like cracking a code.

However, in life you don´t this chance to look at a freeze frame, to have time to analyze the faces...


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22 Dec 2008, 4:56 pm

31

The first 5 pages of the first Chapter of Steven Johnson's book, "Mind Wide Open", on the neuroscience of interaction, are all about this test and the way he did well in it (held onto the flash of first impression, etc).

The first Chapter is "Mind Sight", about ToM. It starts:

"I'm gazing into a pair of eyes, scanning the arch of the brow, the hooded lids, trying to gauge whether they're signaling defiance or panic."

Johnson also discusses Simon Baron-Cohen's research and that eyes test again in his a book, "Social Intelligence", which goes more specifically into the neuroscience details of social interaction cognitive processes.

Plus, I have created a ToM function analysis method for myself that works really well, as a synthetic ToM process for offline processing (after meetings, etc). I can read NTs pretty well now, see what is under the surface... I think I have better ToM than my husband does now and he is an NT. My ToM far outstrips my other social skills.

I was actually expecting to do better than 31 on the test.

Simon Baron-Cohen's research found 412 distinct emotions that can be detected in a human expression (obviously not all distinguishable only by looking at eye pictures). Using fMRI's to image brain activation when expressions were shown to volunteers, they found that the amygdala lights up when scanning an expression, and that non-verbal, visceral pathway produces the emotional gut feeling we get as flash impressions before we have enough time to develop explicit conscious thoughts in reaction to seeing something. That is why the initial flash of emotional impression on seeing the eyes is the more accurate one. If you stare at the eye images for any length of time, ignoring that first flash, your score goes down.

In part, developing an online, real-time ToM includes training yourself to register the impressions of the amygdala flashes and aggregating them, instead of getting distracted by what the NT is saying (which is often inconsistent with what is going on under their surfaces).



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22 Dec 2008, 5:05 pm

MOA wrote:
pensieve wrote:
25. I never can read a persons eyes in real life because I think I simply don't spend that much time reading body language. Who can think of that stuff when you are trying to come up with things to say?


You bring out the biggest difficulty for Aspies (as I understand it from my AS son)--while NTs typically don't have to think too much about reading the body language or what to say for that matter, Aspies do. I imagine it to be like a first time visitor to New York trying to catch a subway train. By the time he/she figures out how to catch it, it's already gone. Is this correct from your perspective?


It's not that I have to think really hard to understand body language. It’s pretty easy if nothing else is going on to distract me. I just can't do more than one thing simultaneously. I can’t watch a person’s eyes and think at the same time. The look in the eyes is hugely distracting to my thought process. The eyes are piercing and overwhelming. I also have empathy but I can’t try to put myself in someone else’s shoes while I’m dealing with my own thoughts and feelings. I can’t keep track of what people might be thinking or expecting from me in terms of social cues while I’m engrossed in the topic of discussion. I simply can’t do multiple types of thinking at the same time regardless of how little effort they may take individually.

This is my experience anyways. Than again, I’m diagnosed PDD-NOS rather than Aspergers. A lot of Aspies have NLD but it’s not the biggest problem for me. This stuff baffles me as different people here seems to have somewhat different struggles, yet the common thread of not being able to relate to NT’s is always present.



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22 Dec 2008, 5:37 pm

marshall wrote:
MOA wrote:
pensieve wrote:
25. I never can read a persons eyes in real life because I think I simply don't spend that much time reading body language. Who can think of that stuff when you are trying to come up with things to say?


You bring out the biggest difficulty for Aspies (as I understand it from my AS son)--while NTs typically don't have to think too much about reading the body language or what to say for that matter, Aspies do. I imagine it to be like a first time visitor to New York trying to catch a subway train. By the time he/she figures out how to catch it, it's already gone. Is this correct from your perspective?


It's not that I have to think really hard to understand body language. It’s pretty easy if nothing else is going on to distract me. I just can't do more than one thing simultaneously. I can’t watch a person’s eyes and think at the same time. The look in the eyes is hugely distracting to my thought process. The eyes are piercing and overwhelming. I also have empathy but I can’t try to put myself in someone else’s shoes while I’m dealing with my own thoughts and feelings. I can’t keep track of what people might be thinking or expecting from me in terms of social cues while I’m engrossed in the topic of discussion. I simply can’t do multiple types of thinking at the same time regardless of how little effort they may take individually.

This is my experience anyways. Than again, I’m diagnosed PDD-NOS rather than Aspergers. A lot of Aspies have NLD but it’s not the biggest problem for me. This stuff baffles me as different people here seems to have somewhat different struggles, yet the common thread of not being able to relate to NT’s is always present.


Thanks for your response. You are able to express yourself very well. This helps me in my attempt to understand. It's got to be very frustrating, but I do applaud you for understanding yourself so well and being able to express it.


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22 Dec 2008, 5:47 pm

Quote:
ephemerella wrote:
31

The first 5 pages of the first Chapter of Steven Johnson's book, "Mind Wide Open", on the neuroscience of interaction, are all about this test and the way he did well in it (held onto the flash of first impression, etc).

The first Chapter is "Mind Sight", about ToM. It starts:

"I'm gazing into a pair of eyes, scanning the arch of the brow, the hooded lids, trying to gauge whether they're signaling defiance or panic."

Johnson also discusses Simon Baron-Cohen's research and that eyes test again in his a book, "Social Intelligence", which goes more specifically into the neuroscience details of social interaction cognitive processes.

Plus, I have created a ToM function analysis method for myself that works really well, as a synthetic ToM process for offline processing (after meetings, etc). I can read NTs pretty well now, see what is under the surface... I think I have better ToM than my husband does now and he is an NT. My ToM far outstrips my other social skills.

I was actually expecting to do better than 31 on the test.

Simon Baron-Cohen's research found 412 distinct emotions that can be detected in a human expression (obviously not all distinguishable only by looking at eye pictures). Using fMRI's to image brain activation when expressions were shown to volunteers, they found that the amygdala lights up when scanning an expression, and that non-verbal, visceral pathway produces the emotional gut feeling we get as flash impressions before we have enough time to develop explicit conscious thoughts in reaction to seeing something. That is why the initial flash of emotional impression on seeing the eyes is the more accurate one. If you stare at the eye images for any length of time, ignoring that first flash, your score goes down.

In part, developing an online, real-time ToM includes training yourself to register the impressions of the amygdala flashes and aggregating them, instead of getting distracted by what the NT is saying (which is often inconsistent with what is going on under their surfaces).


thanks for explaining that, ephemerella. :wink: it's interesting to learn.