test
shamanic powers
09 Feb 2009, 10:58 pm
Fnord wrote:
Dussel wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I've attended enough pot parties and drug orgies - whether they were disguised as "Shamanistic Rituals" or "Sweat Lodges" or "Walking the Peyote Road" - and they are all the same: everyone wants to get high, lose their inhibitions, and experience
It is after all not such a bad trick - If you use psychedelic drugs and you start the trip with some bad emotions, it can derail quickly. Embedding such experiences into a ritual may helpful to canalize the experiences. But: This has nothing to do with anything supernatural, and experienced users do not need such silly games. They know when better not a drug or how to guide the direction of an experience on their own.
"Trick" being the operative word. All I ever saw at these rituals were people puking, soiling themselves, passing out, and occasionally having convulsions - all advertised as a "Spiritual" experience (for a hefty fee, of course).
This is what I call a derailment - I took my fair share on drugs and one of the thinks I learned was how to avoid such derailments, by exact measuring the dose and by influencing anyone how is in danger of going into a bad experience (talking down). But this depends on the drugs used and being still aware that you are on a drug and some experience. I am not certain how of being an Aspie helps me by staying in charge even being very high on a combination of different drugs, I learned it and it works.
Fnord wrote:
You just can't spell the word "Shaman" without "Sham".
There is nothing more dangerous than using drugs informed. In this case I would dangerous "sham"!
09 Feb 2009, 11:01 pm
Dussel wrote:
This is what I call a derailment - I took my fair share on drugs and one of the thinks I learned was how to avoid such derailments, by exact measuring the dose and by influencing anyone how is in danger of going into a bad experience (talking down). But this depends on the drugs used and being still aware that you are on a drug and some experience. I am not certain how of being an Aspie helps me by staying in charge even being very high on a combination of different drugs, I learned it and it works.
What did the "Shamans" care? They already had the tourists' money, so why bother avoiding derailments?
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Loborojo
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09 Feb 2009, 11:04 pm
Fnord wrote:
Loborojo wrote:
COme and learn with the real Andean shamans and learn some respect...I think that's about all I can say to you. You are lost and hitting your head against a brick wall.
No, I will not travel to another foreign country just to have another drug orgy in another dirt-floored hut led by another self-proclaimed "spiritual" leader and yet again waste my hard-earned money doing so.
Tell you what; YOU come to America, and try to spread your drug gospel here! Not even the Navajo try to actively recruit outsiders to their "rituals". I'm sure that the Department of Homeland Security already has your name on file, and they would be only too willing to greet you as soon as you step off the plane.
I never felt any attraction to the USA, because apart from the natives, there is no spirituality, you live on cemetary of a buried culture killed of for the sake of the green back.
No real shaman In South America recruits them either...but out of all that I posted here you have bitter little given any sence of ral understanding of what I am trying to say here. It's like a blindfold toddler banging his drum: I don't want to hear it, I know it all, after all you live in God's own country' right and the rest of the world is the villain and the outlaw.
The Narive american Church exists, teh Cia kills shamans everywhere in the Americas, your filthy pastors of evangelical origine, hwo f****d up your country from the first itme the pilgrims set foot in America and now they are f*****g it up in South and central america, too bad their intelligence is not waiting at the airport in Lima or Bogotá for them.
Bush should have been breastfed with ayahuasca, he would have had enlightenment and be less agressive, don't know if he would have been less stupid, but if you can't get your head around other cultures you never visited or read about, then shut the f**k up!! !
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Loborojo
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09 Feb 2009, 11:07 pm
Fnord wrote:
Dussel wrote:
This is what I call a derailment - I took my fair share on drugs and one of the thinks I learned was how to avoid such derailments, by exact measuring the dose and by influencing anyone how is in danger of going into a bad experience (talking down). But this depends on the drugs used and being still aware that you are on a drug and some experience. I am not certain how of being an Aspie helps me by staying in charge even being very high on a combination of different drugs, I learned it and it works.
What did the "Shamans" care? They already had the tourists' money, so why bother avoiding derailments?
that's the point, he wasn't a real shaman so don't balme the profession or the ones who are not there, he was a simple man in the money game to satisfy a tourist's thirst for an exotic experience, and on top he was willing to pay for his fancy!
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Your Aspie score: 152 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 48 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie
Loborojo
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09 Feb 2009, 11:08 pm
Dussel wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Dussel wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I've attended enough pot parties and drug orgies - whether they were disguised as "Shamanistic Rituals" or "Sweat Lodges" or "Walking the Peyote Road" - and they are all the same: everyone wants to get high, lose their inhibitions, and experience
It is after all not such a bad trick - If you use psychedelic drugs and you start the trip with some bad emotions, it can derail quickly. Embedding such experiences into a ritual may helpful to canalize the experiences. But: This has nothing to do with anything supernatural, and experienced users do not need such silly games. They know when better not a drug or how to guide the direction of an experience on their own.
"Trick" being the operative word. All I ever saw at these rituals were people puking, soiling themselves, passing out, and occasionally having convulsions - all advertised as a "Spiritual" experience (for a hefty fee, of course).
This is what I call a derailment - I took my fair share on drugs and one of the thinks I learned was how to avoid such derailments, by exact measuring the dose and by influencing anyone how is in danger of going into a bad experience (talking down). But this depends on the drugs used and being still aware that you are on a drug and some experience. I am not certain how of being an Aspie helps me by staying in charge even being very high on a combination of different drugs, I learned it and it works.
Fnord wrote:
You just can't spell the word "Shaman" without "Sham".
There is nothing more dangerous than using drugs informed. In this case I would dangerous "sham"!
a combination of different drugs, that says it all!!
_________________
Your Aspie score: 152 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 48 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie
09 Feb 2009, 11:09 pm
Fnord wrote:
Dussel wrote:
This is what I call a derailment - I took my fair share on drugs and one of the thinks I learned was how to avoid such derailments, by exact measuring the dose and by influencing anyone how is in danger of going into a bad experience (talking down). But this depends on the drugs used and being still aware that you are on a drug and some experience. I am not certain how of being an Aspie helps me by staying in charge even being very high on a combination of different drugs, I learned it and it works.
What did the "Shamans" care? They already had the tourists' money, so why bother avoiding derailments?
It can be very dangerous: Beside physical issues (suffocation of your own vomit), there are mental issues. such an experience can trigger e.g. a hidden psychosis or can bring hidden angst to surface and the angst than manifests into a harmless spider which in the mind turns to a life-threatening monster. This especially difficult if unknown persons are taking the drug. You do just not know what mental ballast they have.
There are other drugs around which more safe to use with a stranger than the psychedelic ones used in such rituals.
Loborojo
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09 Feb 2009, 11:14 pm
I introduced a friend of mine to ayahuasca in Europe, we were friends, so the atmosphere was ok, not threatening for her. She was on ati-depressants. She had more energy than ever before, she only took it once, and stayed away from the the anti-depressants. 1 year later i met her again, and still off the anti-depressants. that was what I call healing and with a ritual and respect for what teh shamsn in the Andes call, sacred medicine which the plant is.
But I rest my case, I don't need to have the last word...put your rants in the rant thread.
_________________
Your Aspie score: 152 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 48 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie
09 Feb 2009, 11:27 pm
Loborojo wrote:
I introduced a friend of mine to ayahuasca in Europe, we were friends, so the atmosphere was ok, not threatening for her. She was on ati-depressants. She had more energy than ever before, she only took it once, and stayed away from the the anti-depressants. 1 year later i met her again, and still off the anti-depressants. that was what I call healing and with a ritual and respect for what teh shamsn in the Andes call, sacred medicine which the plant is.
But I rest my case, I don't need to have the last word...put your rants in the rant thread.
But I rest my case, I don't need to have the last word...put your rants in the rant thread.
If you play with drugs, the first thing to buy is a precise mg-scale and to learn how to set injection IV, IM and subcutaneous. Contra to a common misconception the direct injection of the substance into body, if done hygienic and exact measurement, is most safe way of using drugs. At all other methods the amount the timespan between bringing the drug into the system and the actual effect is uncertain, it also uncertain how long the effect will last. This is general true for all drugs, but plants are even more dangerous because you do not known the exact amount of the active ingredients in a given amount of a plant. You just can't play with plants on safe side.
Loborojo
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Joined: 19 Aug 2008
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09 Feb 2009, 11:31 pm
Dussel wrote:
Loborojo wrote:
I introduced a friend of mine to ayahuasca in Europe, we were friends, so the atmosphere was ok, not threatening for her. She was on ati-depressants. She had more energy than ever before, she only took it once, and stayed away from the the anti-depressants. 1 year later i met her again, and still off the anti-depressants. that was what I call healing and with a ritual and respect for what teh shamsn in the Andes call, sacred medicine which the plant is.
But I rest my case, I don't need to have the last word...put your rants in the rant thread.
But I rest my case, I don't need to have the last word...put your rants in the rant thread.
If you play with drugs, the first thing to buy is a precise mg-scale and to learn how to set injection IV, IM and subcutaneous. Contra to a common misconception the direct injection of the substance into body, if done hygienic and exact measurement, is most safe way of using drugs. At all other methods the amount the timespan between bringing the drug into the system and the actual effect is uncertain, it also uncertain how long the effect will last. This is general true for all drugs, but plants are even more dangerous because you do not known the exact amount of the active ingredients in a given amount of a plant. You just can't play with plants on safe side.
that's why there are so many deads of overdoses, because they can measure it? You make me sick comparing the vulgar use of a needle and injection adulterated substances into your body.
Ther have never been any accounts of death by ayahuasca, but should never tak it alone if you have never done it before, that's where the shaman comes in. Not one journey is the same.
_________________
Your Aspie score: 152 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 48 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie
09 Feb 2009, 11:31 pm
Fnord wrote:
Padium wrote:
This thread is so circular, its not even a spiral...
Yeah ... superstitious people who refuse to learn REAL knowledge vs. educated people who refuse to stop trying to teach what's real.
It's a seemingly endless struggle, but eventually reality always wins.
are you certain reality always wins?
what is your proof?
Merle
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Loborojo
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09 Feb 2009, 11:34 pm
sinsboldly wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Padium wrote:
This thread is so circular, its not even a spiral...
Yeah ... superstitious people who refuse to learn REAL knowledge vs. educated people who refuse to stop trying to teach what's real.
It's a seemingly endless struggle, but eventually reality always wins.
are you certain reality always wins?
what is your proof?
Merle
who says we see reality (all is maya and even aborigenes believe our dreams are reality and not otherwise). When we know that our brain is slower in capting images in process compared to certain animals like dogs...
_________________
Your Aspie score: 152 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 48 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie
09 Feb 2009, 11:38 pm
Fnord wrote:
I've attended enough pot parties and drug orgies - whether they were disguised as "Shamanistic Rituals" or "Sweat Lodges" or "Walking the Peyote Road" - and they are all the same: everyone wants to get high, lose their inhibitions, and experience some form of ecstasy. There is always some ersatz "Shaman" or "Dealer" whose only connection with the "shamanistic" culture" is having been rejected by even the most liberal of European cultures (from which they're usually deported, as well). And all that the participants end up with is a hangover, soiled clothing, and an incredible case of the munchies.
Don't preach to me about "legitimized" drug abuse, because there is no such thing, except where there is no law.
Don't preach to me about "legitimized" drug abuse, because there is no such thing, except where there is no law.
You're basing your entire experience off Shamanism off a bunch "pot parties" and "Drug orgies" that aren't even the real thing?
09 Feb 2009, 11:47 pm
Loborojo wrote:
that's why there are so many deads of overdoses, because they can measure it?
Those deaths are caused by either a lack of knowledge, of discipline, of not measuring the drug precisely (mg-scale!) or more often because it sometime hard to know the exact quality of the substance, because the market is illegal and therefore not regulated.
Loborojo wrote:
You make me sick comparing the vulgar use of a needle and injection adulterated substances into your body.
It same manipulation you brain functions.
Loborojo
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Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Age:56
Posts: 1,356
Location: wherever I lay my head (now in the Peru)
09 Feb 2009, 11:50 pm
Dussel wrote:
Loborojo wrote:
that's why there are so many deads of overdoses, because they can measure it?
Those deaths are caused by either a lack of knowledge, of discipline, of not measuring the drug precisely (mg-scale!) or more often because it sometime hard to know the exact quality of the substance, because the market is illegal and therefore not regulated.
Loborojo wrote:
You make me sick comparing the vulgar use of a needle and injection adulterated substances into your body.
It same manipulation you brain functions.
a needle is intrusive and not natural compared to simple ingestion, which takes time to have its effect before it goes into the bloodstream. We are still talking injecting adulterated plants like crack, cocaine, heroin, opium, etc, which ayahuasca or san pedro is not.
_________________
Your Aspie score: 152 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 48 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie
09 Feb 2009, 11:59 pm
Loborojo wrote:
a needle is intrusive and not natural compared to simple ingestion, which takes time to have its effect before it goes into the bloodstream. We are still talking injecting adulterated plants like crack, cocaine, heroin, opium, etc, which ayahuasca or san pedro is not.
The idea that some thinks are "natural" and other not is an artificial construct. The products of humans are the products of the human evolution, cultural and physical. A railway line or a banking account is as "natural" as a tree.
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