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Tantybi
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17 Apr 2009, 12:20 pm

I was thinking about this yesterday while driving. First of all, Astrology has more a scientific method than psychology. It's like they took the theory of man and tried to develop the philosophical concept into a science. What is psychology's scientific method? Let's observe a small sample of people and generalize the results to the entire population. I don't care how many things they try to do to make it sound scientific with the ethics of removing bias, considerations of other variables, usage of complex statistical formulas, and the disclaimer that correlation does not prove causation, they still basically in a nutshell generalize the entire population based off a small sample of that population. It would be the same as saying the majority of black people listen to rap music because you know 95 black people that do listen to hip hop. Psychology discriminates more than it scientifically evaluates.

But second, I think psychology takes the paradigm of the way a person is supposed to be and then says that if you aren't that exact person, which is unnatural when you really think about it, then you have a disorder/handicap/syndrome/something that needs to be cured but can be medicated or treated with therapy until we are smart enough to create a cure/just give me your money.

What many psychologists fail to realize is that certain things are very normal to the human species unless it's too extreme. Like depression. It's normal for us to feel sad on occasion. It's not normal to have recurring suicidal thoughts. But, like in my history, after my father died, I probably had 3 or 4 scripts written up for something like Prozac because every doctor thought my grief needed to be treated, and I was far from suicidal. If I had filled those RX's, it would have interfered with my grieving process, and I would be hooked to shrinks for the rest of my life.

Then when you consider aspergers, aspies are more of a different breed of people than a dysfunction. As many common differences that we may have that sets us apart from "neurotypicals," we really are the same as them struggling with our weaknesses uncertain of our strengths. One difference we do have is that many of our weaknesses we share with others of the same diagnosis, and we are able to get together in internet forums and autreats and centers and so forth and try to work at improving ourselves which is a luxury neurotypicals are too typical to afford. But excuse me if I fail to recognize one's ability to make eye contact and follow the P's and Q's of society as a dysfunction to the society. Blame TV and Music as I did listen to a lot of rap and rock, and I did watch a lot of Chuck Norris movies and 80's rebel teen ones growing up. I'm willing to bet that many people like myself who share the mentality of "screw the norm" didn't get it from being "aspergers" or any other label psychology wants to dish out.

But anyway, these are just some thoughts I had. I just want to know what other people think to make me think about it more or on another level or something.



ouinon
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17 Apr 2009, 12:35 pm

I agree that clinical psychology, and psychiatry, are completely unscientific. And I also believe that astrology is a powerful tool to self-understanding, and allows for human variation without value judgement, which psychology, acting almost as social-control of "deviance"/difference, does not.

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17 Apr 2009, 12:36 pm

Psychology does recognize that there is a range of "normal". In fact, to be a diagnosable condition, something has to cause either distress or dysfunction or both. The problem comes when individual psychologists do not necessarily remember this fact, and attempt to apply a more narrow definition of "mentally healthy" than is appropriate.


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Willard
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17 Apr 2009, 12:55 pm

Tantybi wrote:
I was thinking about this yesterday while driving. First of all, Astrology has more a scientific method than psychology.


I'll grant that Astrology can have an uncanny degree of accuracy for Psychological profiling when you break it down into Sun/Moon/Ascendant positions as a combination, but that's all. The notion that it can be used to predict future events is ludicrous. And calling it a Science is more than a bit of a stretch. Psychology has it's moments of hoodoo as well, but in the long run it's much more useful (as long as it stays out of the pharmaceutical business).

Tantybi wrote:
Then when you consider aspergers, aspies are more of a different breed of people than a dysfunction. As many common differences that we may have that sets us apart from "neurotypicals," we really are the same as them struggling with our weaknesses uncertain of our strengths.


I will agree that AS is not a disease - whether you want to accept it as a dysfunction is a personal choice. But if you have a brain function that sets you apart from the majority in the common social order - that is a handicap whether you care to admit it or not. You will be discriminated against for that handicap by the majority and that can be a very serious issue over the course of a lifetime. And for that reason we have laws created to help protect us from the more serious results of that discrimination.

So if you're thinking that Psychology is nothing but mumbo-jumbo describing conditions that don't actually exist, you've just made yourself vulnerable to everyone in this society who sees what the Psychologists see and you want to deny. You're different than the majority. And the herd doesn't like mutants.



TobyZ
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17 Apr 2009, 1:40 pm

maybe the doctors are smarter than you think, don't want you to catch on the scam.
I think it's sometimes they buy their own bullshit. Or they are in denial of the very problems they cause.

Have you seen this? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 3825999151

It is a pretty good basis for the economic meltdown you will see continue for likely a long time (think many more years, not months. Maybe even decades, with shorter periods of "recovery"). Balance is very lost in our society and our medical system. Economically, appealing to emotion over education - that's only going to work so long. People build up emotional intolerance.

For the record, they aren't all bad. But we have a very corrupt society built on a lot of self indulgent behavior. Perhaps the differences in emotions is what allows Aspies be more open minded to seeing it. "Different planet".



Tantybi
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17 Apr 2009, 4:00 pm

Willard wrote:
Tantybi wrote:
I was thinking about this yesterday while driving. First of all, Astrology has more a scientific method than psychology.


I'll grant that Astrology can have an uncanny degree of accuracy for Psychological profiling when you break it down into Sun/Moon/Ascendant positions as a combination, but that's all. The notion that it can be used to predict future events is ludicrous. And calling it a Science is more than a bit of a stretch. Psychology has it's moments of hoodoo as well, but in the long run it's much more useful (as long as it stays out of the pharmaceutical business).

Tantybi wrote:
Then when you consider aspergers, aspies are more of a different breed of people than a dysfunction. As many common differences that we may have that sets us apart from "neurotypicals," we really are the same as them struggling with our weaknesses uncertain of our strengths.


I will agree that AS is not a disease - whether you want to accept it as a dysfunction is a personal choice. But if you have a brain function that sets you apart from the majority in the common social order - that is a handicap whether you care to admit it or not. You will be discriminated against for that handicap by the majority and that can be a very serious issue over the course of a lifetime. And for that reason we have laws created to help protect us from the more serious results of that discrimination.

So if you're thinking that Psychology is nothing but mumbo-jumbo describing conditions that don't actually exist, you've just made yourself vulnerable to everyone in this society who sees what the Psychologists see and you want to deny. You're different than the majority. And the herd doesn't like mutants.


The only problem with the brain dysfunction theory is that they can't exactly pin point how it is a brain dysfunction, otherwise, I'd assume they'd know how to fix it. That still doesn't account for the majority of the people who are brain dead or refuse to use their brain, i.e., the psychologists for which we are talking about. But, I guess stupidity is a norm as opposed to a handicap, which if that's the case, I'd rather be the mutant that I am.

I'm starting to really think much of psychology is more psychoblabber mumbo jumbo than a science. As any psyc student out there. Many people love to major in psychology because it's mainly bs and it's easy.



TobyZ
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17 Apr 2009, 4:10 pm

Tantybi wrote:
I'm starting to really think much of psychology is more psychoblabber mumbo jumbo than a science. As any psyc student out there. Many people love to major in psychology because it's mainly bs and it's easy.


I don't think it's all bad, but there is good reason to question it.

Look at the hard work of people writing you here and answering you for no financial gain?

doctors get paid big dollars. and this type doesn't need any special equipment... their office can be basic and inexpensive. They can have a very nice lifestyle. Plus they do have useful social skills, and the more they train themselves on social skills - they can use them to discredit their own critics.

I'm not saying that all or most are that way, but it surely is possible. Again, watch the BBC documentary - it isn't all good.



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17 Apr 2009, 5:04 pm

Tantybi wrote:
Let's observe a small sample of people and generalize the results to the entire population.

That describes all science Tantybi.
Quote:
What many psychologists fail to realize is that certain things are very normal to the human species unless it's too extreme.

Those that do as you describe are at fault. Anytime a human operator is involved, it is plausible human error will occur.
Quote:

Then when you consider aspergers, aspies are more of a different breed of people than a dysfunction.

I am not a different breed to my parents and siblings. I experience both impairment and dysfunction as a result of Aspergers Syndrome.
Quote:
The only problem with the brain dysfunction theory is that they can't exactly pin point how it is a brain dysfunction, otherwise, I'd assume they'd know how to fix it.

The implication of the logic you are applying to arrive at such a conclusion, is that while some cancer might be described as dysfunction, incurable cancer is not dysfunctional. I doubt many people would agree that being incurable makes cancer less dysfunctional.