Does anyone here feel they don't want to be a movement?

Post Reply New Topic

Also: most folks that I know in the neurodiversity movement DO NOT think or say that we don't need help & support, that we shouldn't take medications that will help us (whether with anxiety, depression, seizures, whatever challenges you face), or that schizophrenics should go off their meds. this is a misconception that gets floated around by Autism Speaks & its ilk. Autism Speaks spends only 4% of its budget actually helping autistic families (less than 1% to adults with autism). most of their budget goes to fundraising, awareness media campaigns (like the infamous satanic "I am autism" one), & research, largely into the genetic causes & an in vitro test mentioned earlier (but also into things like ABA, JRC-like methods, and they even did a bunch of autism-vaccine link stuff early on). they are NOT helping us get treatments, making our lives better, or really concerned with anything that happens to us once we age out of the system.

ASAN and other neurodiversity groups are fighting for access to funding, independent living situations, assistive technologies, positive therapies, and many more things that will ACTUALLY HELP US live in society. They want to find out why many of us have seizures, why we have gastrointestinal problems, what meds will effectively treat it. they want to give us therapies that will help us live independently & contribute to society without traumatizing us.

And like I said earlier: you don't have to be an activist for every cause, that would be ridiculous and impossible. But don't disparage people that are working to make your life better! That's a bit like women who work outside the home & vote saying that they aren't feminists... it's biting the hand that feeds you.

An exaggeration surely. There can't really be people like this, can there?

So if the 'Civil Rights' movement you dislike achieves real change and improves the lives of people on the spectrum, will you stay as you are or enjoy those new found rights alongside the people who fought for them?

I'm not a part of the movement. I knew of someone in RL who was a proper autism advocate but I hate the whole thing lol.

Exactly! What is all of this nonsense about autism being a 'gift' anyway? How the hell can something like this be a gift? That's like saying that schizophrenia or blindness is a 'gift'! What complete and utter BS.

Well what have they actually achieved so far? Anything at all?

One of the things I resent about these self-styled advocates for autistics is their hypocrisy. They will get all hot and bothered when it appears to them that Autism Speaks is giving the impression they are trying to speak for all of us, but then they will take it upon themselves to be our 'representatives' and say stupid things like, "autistics want to be known as being autistic people, or on the spectrum, and not as people who have autism".

I HAVE Asperger's Syndrome, I am NOT defined by my condition! It is not what I am. I want a cure for this curse, for that is what it really is for me, and everything that I have managed to achieve thus far in life has been due to my persistent efforts to overcome this handicap, not wallow in it.

No one has recommended that if, or when, a time comes when we will be able to detect autism/A.S. within foetesus the recommended course of action should be that such foetuses be terminated. Where are you getting this from? Certainly not Autism Speaks, or anyone else that I know of. The fact that people actually choose to kill their babies because they are perceived by them to be 'imperfect', is more a reflection of the kind of debased world we now live in, and if I were you I would be far more concerned about the general direction that society is headed, worldwide, than any particular manifestation of that direction, like those who think it would be a good idea to kill autistic children. Why do people now think it's no big deal to kill someone before they are even born? That is the question we should all be asking ourselves.

I fail to see how wanting Autistics to speak for themselves instead of letting an organization whose stated goal is to find a cure for Autism and to prevent Autism is hypocrisy. It's a lovely strawman you made about Autistics shouting out what's best for everyone, but you need to stop being in denial about how awareness works. WHO speaks is of critical importance, as s/he drives the conversation. I'd much rather have people who actually live and experience Autism firsthand on a daily basis share their experience than to have a misguided organization (or worse, parents who want to get back the child Autism "stole" from them) drive the conversation.

Look, I'm sorry that you aren't comfortable with how your brain is wired. But at some point, you'll realize that the connectivity in your brain makes a cure impossible without completely eradicating who you are. Perhaps at that point, you'll realize that just maybe you have a vested interest in how Autistics are treated because you will always be one.

To blame society is a cheap cop-out. Society has been listening to Autism Speaks propaganda for long enough that to claim ignorance on what will happen in this hypothetical is absurd and, frankly, intellectually dishonest.

Since 2005, Autism Speaks has been demonizing Autistics. By this point, I assume we've all seen the "I Am Autism" video, so I won't link it here. That kind of crap is how society sees Autism... as a plague... a "stealer of children," etc.. Their walks and promotions have been successful enough that the stigma of Autism is great enough to prevent potential parents from completing a pregnancy upon hypothetical discovery of that prenatal test.

Also, you demonstrate this stigma by distancing yourself from your Aspergers diagnosis.

If you cannot connect those dots, I recommend you consider how the stigma of Down Syndrome has impacted Down birth rates since discovery of prenatal testing.

The way to undo stigma is by having Autistics speak for themselves. If that's a "movement" to you, I don't know what to say.

Sorry for what? How we are 'wired' can, and does, change over time. We don't remain the person we were when we were seven, or seventeen. I am not autism/A.S., I'm so much more that just that, so if any cure were to come along I would not be 'eradicated', and to believe that I would be is just ridiculous. If you think you ARE autism then you will never be able to rise above and conquer it.

What I wrote about society was the truth, not a 'cheap copout'. If parents were not so obsessed with having the perfect (in their view) child, things like what I mentioned before would simply not happen. 'Autism Speaks propaganda...' - this is just nonsense and you know it. Your hypothetical scenario is what is absurd and intellectually dishonest, for at no point has Autism Speaks ever made the claim that we need to murder people with autism or A.S. The fact that they devote a large percentage of the donations they receive to finding out what causes autism is, in my view, an indicator that they want to help by preventing the occurrence of it in the first place. How can that not be a good thing?

Yes, I've seen the short film that so many still mention, and it was just one simple mistake. Have they actually made a film like it since? When was that film made again? Was it 2007, 2008? Get-over-it! All of this phoney righteous indignation may be appropriate for the pulpit, but when you indulge in it in what should be a level-headed and serious discussion, you just end up looking whiney. Yes, we DO speak for ourselves, and I am doing that right now. The fact that you can't handle a difference of opinion is your problem, not mine. Autism Speaks doesn't speak for me, but neither do you or anyone else who believes in all of this 'neurodiversity' crap.

Well, you can hang on to your handicap when a cure is eventually found, that's up to you, but don't expect others to agree to do the same. For many of us autism/A.S. really is a curse, and the sooner we are rid of it the better our lives will be. If you have a problem with that... well, tough.

Right. They're distanced themselves SO much since 2007-2008... https://www.autismspeaks.org/news/news-item/autism-speaks-washington-call-action and http://jerobison.blogspot.com/2013/11/i-resign-my-roles-at-autism-speaks.html (late 2013)

I'm sure that has nothing to do with the societal stigma of Autism at all. Nah. Totally unrelated. The largest Autism organization demonizing Autism for a decade straight... But I'm just whiney, right?

And for the record, I never said Autism Speaks said to murder ASD people. I don't know where you're getting this from. Please put that strawman to bed. It's getting late.


As an honest suggestion, I recommend you bring yourself up to speed on the latest findings about how ASD brains work. I get the impression that your position is borne more from ignorance than anything else. I don't mean this in a demeaning way, please don't take it as such. It's okay to be ignorant if you also are open to correcting that. After all, education is how we overcome the stigma.

My suggestion would include Temple Grandin's latest book, "The Autistic Brain," specifically the first third or so of the book. You can ignore the portions about Autism as a gift if you want (even I think she overdoes that in this text), but the science she bases her opinion on is worth knowing.

My second suggestion would be to look into Intense World Theory. It's controversial, yes, but combined with the High Definition Fiber Tracking portions of Grandin's book and the findings here, it explains how the over-connectivity of our brains makes any cure that might come along in the future useless for those already living with Autistic brains.

The first article that is linked by you I have seen before, and apart from the fact they seem to concentrate on the most severe cases of autism whilst ignoring those who actually can tie their shoelaces and use toilets, I found there to be nothing at all wrong with it. They do not advocate genocide, or abortion (which is basically the same thing as genocide anyway). This is not new to me. It may sound a bit over the top, but it is a 'call to action' so that is to be expected.

The second link is the resignation of John Robison from 'Autism Speaks' and, again, this is nothing new. He did not agree with their agenda, so he left. No big deal. These things happen all the time within large organisations, the world over.

You seem to think I have no idea 'how ASD brains work', as though they all worked the same way. I know exactly how they work, because I have had to put up with the many short-comings associated with this disorder my whole life. I will look at the 'autistic-brains-have-too-many-synapses' link, if only because it looks interesting. 'Temple' Grandin? Weird name, never heard of her. Must be American, which would explain my ignorance.

I don't want it to be a movement either. But regrettably there are people who want bad things to happen to us if we don't say something. Because of the "movement", laws have changed regarding custody, police treatment, insurance, and others. Abandoning advocacy could jeopardize these advancements, which could be very dangerous for individuals anywhere on the spectrum. I would much rather say I have autism and leave it at that as well, but unfortunately we need to do activism if we're going to get to a world like that. Lastly I would say Autism advocacy is a civil rights movement in some ways. Individuals on the spectrum face harsh prison sentences and often are confronted with force, which are commonly seen as types of civil rights violations. I'm not in this fight for validation or acceptance (neither of which I think I will get) but for the ability to live without fear of extravagant medical expenses or an unfair justice system.

Yep. awkward dinner party. I'm in academia, these conversations happen all the time! some folks are just out of touch and lack common sense, methinks

Please do look into Temple Grandin. She's done amazing work in her field of study, but has also done amazing things advocating for autistic people / people with autism, helping others understand us, and helping society see why we are valuable. as for it all being a "curse," I am sorry you feel that way. Look up companies that are specifically hiring autistic people because of our differences. I can't find the exact article, but this one mentions some of the same things: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... rkers.html

best of luck identifying your strengths and being proud of who you are!