Those who post outdated quotes

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The_Face_of_Boo
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13 Sep 2017, 2:28 am

I've came across a facebook quote posted by a girl:
“She’s beautiful, and therefore to be wooed; She is woman, and therefore to be won”.
#Shakespeare

Isn't posting a such post, as a woman, is self-objectifying by itself? To be "won"? Why to be won? Can't she choose her man? From what I know, only objects get won. And I don't think he was referring to the 'heart' to be won but clearly to 'woman', that the very fact she is woman then she is something to be won.

I mean even if it was written by someone great as Shakespeare, that man grew in a time when women didn't have a role much; yet I see there are women posting quotes like these without much thought. Beh. Confusing, no?



traven
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13 Sep 2017, 2:38 am

in history there were women too

isn't it you who wants to redefine within limiting stereotypes?

the open door in diversity-politics' cul-de-sac :skull:



wanderlust77
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13 Sep 2017, 3:01 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
I've came across a facebook quote posted by a girl:
“She’s beautiful, and therefore to be wooed; She is woman, and therefore to be won”.
#Shakespeare

Isn't posting a such post, as a woman, is self-objectifying by itself? To be "won"? Why to be won? Can't she choose her man? From what I know, only objects get won. And I don't think he was referring to the 'heart' to be won but clearly to 'woman', that the very fact she is woman then she is something to be won.

I mean even if it was written by someone great as Shakespeare, that man grew in a time when women didn't have a role much; yet I see there are women posting quotes like these without much thought. Beh. Confusing, no?

"She is beautiful, and therefored to be wooed" says that the woman in question has obvious looks, and as a result will have a lot of suitors. Poeple will try "woo-ing" her because of her beauty.

"She is woman, and therefore to be won" means that as a female, her love is an object in a race among men that is meant to be won over. It's a contest to win her love. As a beautiful woman is a prize and like a trophy. "You are more of a man if you have a beautiful prize. Yes, It is objectifying. But I would think women would post this as a kind of "warning"
"I am a woman, woo me, fight for me! And because I am a woman don't expect me to lift a finger for you"
Again the narcissistic traits of women :)



The_Face_of_Boo
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13 Sep 2017, 3:11 am

traven wrote:
in history there were women too

isn't it you who wants to redefine within limiting stereotypes?

the open door in diversity-politics' cul-de-sac :skull:



Honestly I have no idea what you've just babbled there. :skull:



Fireblossom
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13 Sep 2017, 7:11 am

I came up with four possibilities why a woman would quote something like that. In the order I thought of them, those possibilities are:

a) The person was raised in a culture/family that still has that kind of values, that women are automatically weaker, less intelligent and worth less than men and that the person actually believes this.

b) The person understands the quote in a different way. "She is woman, and therefore to be won” can also be understood in a way that in order to get a woman to love you, you need to "win her over", in other words get her to like you before you can suggest dating or, in Shakespeare's time, ask for their hand.

c) The person didn't really stop to consider what the quote meant and thought she's look smart/cool if she quoted Shakespeare.

d) The person just likes Shakespeare and likes to share his thoughts even if she doesn't agree with them.



Aristophanes
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13 Sep 2017, 7:24 am

Even in Shakespeare's era women weren't "won", they were bought and sold as part of elaborate business deals called a 'dowry'.



Trueno
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13 Sep 2017, 7:55 am

Personally I think that anyone who quotes from Tudor poets should be taken out and roundly drubbed.


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Campin_Cat
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13 Sep 2017, 8:28 pm

First-of-all, I think, like someone else said, that the female posted it, thinking it would make her seem educated / cool / cultured / whatever.

Secondly, I don't have a problem with the quote----but, I don't take it, so literally. I agree that Shakespeare wasn't saying "win a woman's heart", but that he totally meant "win woman"----but, haven't you ever heard the saying: "A man chases a woman, until SHE catches him"? It's the same thing----the "prize" is love (there's your object), LTR, and marriage.

When we read things like that, from back-in-the-day, and apply TODAY'S standard to them, sure, they can be construed, as sexist----but, IMO, if we just look at / read it loosely / generally / whatever (NOT literal), the overall message, is what's important (to ME, anyway): to win love (and that's romantic, to alot of people).





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TheSpectrum
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13 Sep 2017, 8:57 pm

I tend to quote Plato. Occasionally I do it to look smart, cool..unfortunately not everyone will do so with their idols knowing the true context behind what's being quoted.

Did you see this on a dating profile, Boo?
I hear ya, it's annoying.

And, to quote Plato once more: "Poets utter great and wise things which they do not themselves understand." :)


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kitesandtrainsandcats
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13 Sep 2017, 9:14 pm

Always remember to be mindful of the border between their quote and your baggage.


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314pe
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14 Sep 2017, 7:41 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
I see there are women posting quotes like these without much thought. Beh. Confusing, no?

Because such posts are not posted with thought, but rather emotions. I think most will agree that love and romance is guided by emotions mostly. And these emotions don't change with time.



hurtloam
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14 Sep 2017, 10:03 am

This is the kind of thing women I know would post.

They feel like men these days don't put in much effort, so they are saying they are not going to settle for any less than a man who wants her enough to make an effort to win her affections.

I'll give an example. Friend at a party talking to a guy. After the conversation is over another friend says to her she should make it obvious she likes him. She wasn't actually that into him. Anyway her response was, no he should make an effort for me.

Not 100% what this "effort" equals. Maybe asking for her number arranging a date.

I know men here like to believe that we should have equality on the asking out thing and men shouldn't be expected to make the initial moves, but that's what women seem to want. We haven't got that sort of equality yet and most women haven't got the memo.


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