Long friendship with Aspie . . . I give up

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Those two things are unrelated. We were close (so I thought) before he ever said a mean thing to me. But he is amazing because he is talented in several different ways. And he is level headed and he is intelligent. He has a knack for taking on any challenge and making something happen. He goes so far above and beyond that he sets the bar high for anyone who follows him. He had an energy that was unwavering, he never stopped doing and constantly had things on his plate but never faltered. He was kind, at least before. He will help when people ask for it. He is funny and has a sense of humor that resonates with me. He has a focus and a dedication that you don't see every day. Where other people got annoyed with his ramblings about whatever was the technical problem of the day, I adored listening to him work it out and discussing these things with him. I enjoyed being around him and I looked forward to the parts of the day when I would see him. He was the only one who would stay up late at night talking to me electronically because we were both working on some project that we would share with each other. There was no one else like him in my life. He made me remember who I was because of who he is and that is something I will forever attribute to his influence and it altered my path and viewpoint on my life at a particular point in time, which was in a rut at the time. He had this sly way of looking at me and smiling, and I thought we had a connection. He treated me like he respected and admired me back when he didn't treat too many others with that kind of respect. At least that was until we started to become more than just colleagues, and he started being distant and then ultimately unkind. But regardless of that, there is something extraordinary within him and it was an honor being part of his life, until I wasn't anymore.

I would like you to understand that no meaning (for HFA/AS) can be understood in two ways:
1. It has no meaning because it is unnecessary to expound or explicate (e.g. I don't tell you I care because it's obvious I do)
2. It has no meaning because it does not follow out of the context (e.g. Someone claiming that I don't care even though I obviously care very much)
Ergo, it has no meaning can be preemptive. Having dated only NT's and never having heard the term Aspergers either (good point imhere), I just thought that it was weird that my girlfriends were wondering if I cared since I obviously did by spending my time with them. I now understand AS/NT relationships, which will be the majority of relationships for those on the spectrum. As far as I am concerned, both you and Annagables posting here is okay by me. It's interesting (AS to NT translation: it is intellectually stimulating not 'interesting" as in playfully facetious).

You're welcome, it has been enlightening for me to hear things from a different perspective too.

What you say about your friend's body posture, and possibly being able to read his emotions before he can himself, rings true to me. I know for sure that some of my friends and a line manager in my last job have been able to tell when I am getting stressed out long before I can myself, which I can only explain by as them seeing a physical reaction that I'm unaware of.

When I had my autism assessment, the psychologist spoke to me about how literal the phrase "gut feeling" is. The emotional and rational parts of the brain don't always have a direct connection - the emotions release all sorts of signalling chemicals into the body, those produce a physical reaction, and our awareness of the physical reaction is what generates the awareness of the emotion. As many autistic people's sensory processing is often affected, it makes sense that autism could disrupt this process in a way that preserves the some of the physical "tells".


...but would go to the ends of the earth to help you in any practical way he can? I find those kind of situations tricky too, and have often overcompensated by smothering a person in what I know isn't quite the right kind of help, but as near as I can get comfortable with. I can't intuit what kind of support would be best, and find it very hard to know when a person might think I was prying too much, being patronising, too physically intimate ... (it's a long list). The only thing I can suggest is that you shouldn't be afraid to explicitly invite him to comfort you. If you need a hand to hold, shoulder to cry on, comforting words or a hug, just say that you do, as it might relieve any anxieties he has over where your boundaries are. Of course, if he has any particular sensory sensitivities, you may need to be a little more careful about physical contact, as it can be a very weird or uncomfortable experience for some of us, especially if it's something we're not accustomed to.


Oh yes, know that one. If other alexithymic people I've spoken to are anything to go by, mild irritation is an especially easy emotion to comprehend!

Apologies for making these little stories all about me, BTW. I'm just conscious that these are all anecdotes, so I don't want to generalise too much. As with all internet advice, your mileage may vary!

And why you are supposing that he really cares?

It seems that imhere has wishful ideas - she wants him to care, she wants him to love her - and projecting things on that basis and assuming that he's hiding it - but most probably he really doesn't love her and doesn't care that much about her.

Jesus woman, calm down. She’s allowed to feel frustrated. We aren’t always that easy to deal with.

Empathy works both ways. It’s not just all about you, or all about aspies. This is a prime example of why aspies are often labelled as selfish. “MY feelings” “MY condition and situation” How you hurt ME”. Do you not know that people can struggle with aspies in a similar way?

I grew up with an NT mother and an aspie father. Don’t you for one second try to tell me that struggle is one sided.

You’re the only person who doesn’t want to hear her opinion. Why don’t you go away?

It is wishful thinking, and I do want him to care. That's exactly it. The reason I hold onto that is because for nearly 2 years he acted like he did. And he is the one who pushed boundaries from a professional relationship into a friendship. For a while I even really thought he had romantic feelings for me. The problem is that he did express those things. He did. Now I go back and forth in my head not knowing which part was really real, what was the correct expression towards me and what was the aspie error in expression... Does he care or not? Was his avoidance because he doesn't care and just wants to get away from me or is he afraid of how he felt? He really demonstrated he cared for me for a long time then it just changed. I don't know why and that hurts. You very probably could be right. But if you are, then why would he have been so attached to me for so long? I will probably never know. My feelings are clear.

Also, he acted like he wanted to be close - - he always acted that way FIRST, but when I responded in kind, he not only backed off, but he lashed out on top of it. Example : he asked me for my number then he started texting me. On day, in the middle of a long text conversation which HE initiated, he just stopped the conversation and said it was inappropriate for us to be texting and got really mean. I have no idea why. There didnt seem to be anything about the conversation that could have been offensive, it didn't match up. He started pulling me close then pushing me away like that. The more I tried to talk to him about it, the more he pushed. One day I felt I had a close friend for life, the next day I felt like a piece of worthless trash. Back and forth.

Thank you to everyone for your input. It all does help. Especially when I’m feeling like giving up is the easiest thing to do. I need you guys . . . Only a very few of my friends “get” why I am so attached to my friend.

It’s true he does inadvertently hurt me often by his responses or apparent lack of emotion. However when I step back and look at things logically I can see nothing was ever meant to be anything other than truthful and factual and it is the emotional weighting I add to his words that causes the upset.

Why tho is it so important . . . . .it can get into our soul. That’s why Imhere is here trying to understand and fathom what happened. I still haven’t worked that one out. Why do I care so deeply? Why can he make me cry so easily and why is it so important to me to have this friend in my life? And before people say that I want something more from him I really don’t . . . .. .

I wish it was easy for me to accept that explanation. But I also can't help but to wonder if he just can't or won't cross that boundary (there's a big age difference and I was his superior when we worked together). I expressed a lot of things to him and probably scared him away and if that is true then the explanation is more akin to "he's just not that into you". But it still doesn't explain why his behavior towards me changed all of a sudden, because that came first. And it wasn't like he just hated me one day, it was literally back and forth, until a couple months later when he just cut me out completely. I probably scared him away by expressing emotion to him, but again, that in itself came out of trying to talk to him about how much his back and forth hurt me, which came first in all of it. It seems like he was using me as some kind of social learning tool, like he was casting me in different roles to experiment with different kinds of relationships. One day I felt like his mentor (which I was), the next day I was his friend, the next day his lover (without the benefits), the next day his mother. I don't think he knew what he wanted me to be. When I expressed feelings of closeness I think he got freaked out. Like he maybe didn't realize what he was doing and how it appeared on the other side until I pointed it out.

Last edited by imhere on 20 Nov 2017, 6:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.co.uk/2009/10/why-do-aspies-suddenly-back-off-in.html


Have you read this Imhere?

Thank you for that. Yes, I have seen it before. And the change resistance part is what I really thought was the culprit. We were professionally related for a long time then we were becoming friends. Maybe more? Making it even worse? I tried to talk to him about that but he ignored me. But he won't talk to me regardless so I don't think there is anything I can do except what I'm doing... Hurting over the pain of the loss while feeling that he doesn't even care. I doubt he even thinks of me anymore.

I'm glad you haven't given up......both of you.

But these confusing things happen between ALL humans, not just with Aspie men.

Hello Imhere

First I see that you have feelings for this person and you are very hurt. Second the highlighting is to make the bits I mean clear, they are not meant to sound shouted or sarcastic.

You have spent time with this Aspie and others but you have not understood the basics. Your posts are full of hints and things open to interpretation. eg HE GOT MEAN, HE SAID THINGS THAT WERE CRUEL. Right at the end you got into facts but then HE GOT MEAN again. And you used lots and lots of words to get across that complete absence of facts and you did this thinking you were communicating with Aspies, so no you are not understanding at all, I think you are being kind and patient with him, possibly too kind and patient, that is not the same thing.

Another example is you did not answer my question about change (you may have done this in a way that you think would be clear to anyone, it wasn't to me)

Was one of the signs that he cared, that he asked you how you felt about him a lot? or he's curious, you're an NT female, he is unlikely to have much idea of how NT females feel but he will be aware that that deficit in his understanding is a problem love/sex/relationships. He is much less likely to understand that you may read things into his curiosity that were not said.

I recommend this, say to him or better still write down and give him a note 'I am confused, do you want nothing to do with me, do you want a loving relationship with me, do you want to be good friends with me, were you saying what you thought appropriate for sex.' DEMAND clarification (that was a shout) he will respect a need nor clarification.

I babysat for my sister (5 children) across 20 years, an unbelievably stressful thing for someone who cannot multitask, I told her she had a right to be happy through the dumping of three husbands, though I did not slate them. I was always there for her, and she did know that because you don't phone someone at 3am when your abusive ex has turned up at your home unless you think they are going to immediately come over, which I did and held her hand (at my instigation) though the police call and the exes ranting ect. And lots of little things, like when food shopping I would see if there was something on offer for her too, and free things from work I get lots for her as well as myself.

What I didn't do was keep up with her life on facebook, (we live a 5 min walk apart) I didn't chat on the phone for hours (I can't do tone of voice) I did occasionally socialise but YES I had to be dragged out, even though I can cope with it, I only enjoy very small parties with people I know or are calm.

Imhere

What I meat to put in my last post,it got away from me, is that you should judge him by what he said and what he did, not on what you have assumed he meant, take him literally.

If you still think he's wrong, tell him, it may come as a surprise to him (I have been wrong, and it was a complete shock and the main reason I asked to be assessed for Asperger's).

I did not mean to suggest in my long post that all the responsibility for communication was on the NT's side. As an only recently diagnosed Aspie I am aware of adapting what I say depending on whether the person is NT or on the spectrum because of the different ways things can be interpreted that is why I was so surprised that you did not seem aware of this.

I have discussed on this forum my feelings more than I have done to any of my previous friends, why?, because here my problems and issues are accepted as real, therefore I am able to express them without being told I only think I have a problem because I don't have any real problems, such as they have. When I try to explain a problem to NT's, they do not see it as a problem because it wouldn't be one for them, there are only so many times you listen to people who you care about tell you that the most important issues in your life are just you being difficult/silly before you stop.

I also get very incoherent when emotional but most people want to discus these things in casual moments, fitted in around their multi tasking. Open up, move on to a different subject, open up again, bit of texting, something random, more emotion. I cannot do this.

I would love to be able to talk about my feelings, get one out, explain it to someone close, they do the same with theirs, we compare, put it back, get the next feeling out, BUT NO, that's not how it goes. I mention feelings and they get all of theirs out and dump them in one load on top of me and while I am suffocating under them they then demand mine in exchange. When I do not hand them immediately over, for judgement, because they are now hiding in terror, it is assumed that they do not exist