Growing up and done with bad boys
18 Jun 2012, 8:15 pm
I think you misinterpreted that post, dude.
And to be honest, saying you are a nice guy in a romance board is like saying you are a fast runner to fellow track athletes on sports day.
Truly nice/ fast guys don't finish last, and using the term so broadly is only subjective and not definitive. Like an athlete, you would have to prove yourself and not just say you are nice / fast. That bears no substance when there are actions required to confirm it.
18 Jun 2012, 8:16 pm
Blame me - I'm not emotional enough to care at this point in time. I'll readily admit I'm not romantically succesful in the slightest, but I'm keeping that sentiment out of these discussions. I tend to exaggerate my opinion in order to get a discussion going, which is why it's a shame only half of your post is dedicated to deepening this discussion. In general, my sentiment is similar to mds_02's or the post made by rabbittss. It's a bit cheap that 'she' has fun, then settles for someone who will feel like a consolation prize when her looks buff starts to wear out. As for nice guys, they're just guys. They have their own methods of getting laid. Methods that don't work, and they're eternal beta males.
Personally, I'd prefer a paying a prostitute for one night every few months if the alternative was settling for a woman who had fun, then decided you were a long-term investment she reluctantly settled for.
That's one thing. Perhaps nice guys haven't taken the time to read articles and reports. Even if women indicate they want intelligent, funny and friendly men, they want status - full stop.
18 Jun 2012, 8:21 pm
young people don't always make perfect dating choices, big deal
Women who want a cozy "let's watch a movie" partnership certainly exist. Genuinely nice/sweet men exist. Women who want guys who put on a nice facade to make a direct play for the bedroom without having to deal with any risk of rejection (which is what a niceguytm does)...I've yet to meet any.
Of course young people don't always make perfect dating choices, but I assure you it is a very big deal for those who are constantly overlooked. The reason the OP has had this problem is precisely because of girls like her feeding the problem in the first place.
She admits instead of simply going after the guys who more than likely would have been loyal, loving, and supportive in a relationship, she wanted bad boys she could "Fix". It didn't work out, she repeated the process numerous times, and now wants to change her mind. The problem is, the reason why none of those guys allowed her to 'Fix' them is that they had no incentive to do so. Since there a TON more women just like her out there who are willing to delude themselves into repeating the exact same mistake. Meanwhile legitimately nice guys (Not the people you are talking about) get overlooked.
I couldn't have said that better myself, but I wanted to add: the key problem here is thinking you can change a man in the first place. If you don't love him for who he is, find someone else. Don't put you and him thru all kinds of mental anguish and frustration, attempting to fit a square peg into a round hole, go find the round peg. And the same goes for trying to change ANYBODY(within reason. People are going to change anyway, obviously. Nobody stays exactly the same forever; you just shouldn't try to force it).
OliveOilMom
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18 Jun 2012, 9:08 pm
Alpha male does not always equate as*hole. Plenty of nice guys can be alpha type guys and also hot. Nice guy doesn't always mean the nerd who couldn't get laid on his own if his life depended on it. It also doesn't mean you are settling just because you realize that dating the 'bad boys' gets you nothing more than problems.
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spongy
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18 Jun 2012, 11:14 pm
Women who want a cozy "let's watch a movie" partnership certainly exist. Genuinely nice/sweet men exist. Women who want guys who put on a nice facade to make a direct play for the bedroom without having to deal with any risk of rejection (which is what a niceguytm does)...I've yet to meet any.
OP: I would just tell you the aspergers is a neurological difference. It doesn't guarantee better behavior/temperment (though less social bad behavior is likely). Autistic people aren't innocent angels.
Look for people who respect you, that'll cut down on the scumbag behavior you have to deal with a lot better than looking for a specific neurology.
You say you have yet to meet a nice guy. I say that then you're not looking for them, or if you are, then you have a much larger set of criteria than just "a nice guy," such as "a nice guy... who's hot, has lots of money, etc." Because surely, plenty of nice guys exist out there. I'm one of them, which you'll probably say is a lie, but whatever. I'm still a nice guy, as I always was, but the difference now is after having my heart broken and being sh** on and seen others get the same kind of treatment, I'm not as accepting of bullshit. And I'm not nice to those who aren't nice to me. So there are times when some of the things I say make me sound like a bitter as*hole, but that's really not the case.
Also, there are the nice guys who became assholes because that's who they see getting girls all the time, despite the fact that almost every girl on the planet will say she wants a nice guy. So that tells me that either their idea of a nice guy is someone who blows them off to go do other stuff and just generally hurts them all the time(because that's who they tend to stay with), OR they're lying about wanting nice guys.
Heres the thing.
Ive been to several different settings that have nothing in common(from bible readings to binge drinking events) and tried to get to know the people there.
At one point or another this topic usually comes up.According to most of this people Being nice doesnt involve any hidden motives. And according to the exceptions being nice involves doing good things not looking for something from others but in an attempt to be more like jesus(yes bible club members Ive met are rather selfish)
When it involves any hidden motives its not called being nice its called being manipulative.
Now I know that females can be just as manipulative as males Im just tired of hearing pseudo nice guys complaining without understanding this part.
spongy
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OliveOilMom
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18 Jun 2012, 11:50 pm
Also, for you guys, I'd like to explain somewhat of the bad boy "image" and why it's attractive to some girls. It has more to do with, I think, or desire to be "the perfect one for them" who they do straighten up for. The one who finally understands them and doesn't judge them and gets to see a different side to them. Sort of like the girl who kisses the frog and he turns into Prince Charming for her. It's not so much ego as to be this so great and attractive and sought after girl as it is to be the one special one to them who makes the difference.
Lots of times bad boys are very attractive even if they aren't so much physically attractive. They talk a damn good game and it's always so flattering. However, once you go out with several you realize it's the same game but just different players. It's always the same and it's about how they can use you to get what they want.
I married one for a little over a year. Hell on earth there, I'll tell you. Was not worth it, but he had convinced me I was the one for him and the only one who truly understood him. That's a very seductive thing even in nonromantic terms. Don't we all have the desire to be very special to someone, whether it's a romantic partner or a friend or even the co-worker that they just can't do without their help?
Bad boys make you feel needed at first. Then they make you feel needy and unreasonable.
It's not that all hot guys do this. My husband now was pretty hot back in the day and wasn't like that although we have our own problems just like every other marriage out there. Bad boys also have this thing they do that somehow or other makes you willing to do anything almost to please them. Their approval can mean so much to a girl who is stuck in a relationship with one. The problem is, you never get their full approval, it's always going to be almost good enough and they feel better about themselves by tearing you down.
Now, bad boys as friends aren't this way in my experience. I have several as friends and I'm just a peer who they don't want anything special from. Once you get to know them in this way, you will never see them on a pedestal again.
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Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
19 Jun 2012, 12:06 am
I find that a lot of those "bad boys" are repulsive. They repulse me because I can easily see the way they are. I've never fallen for it. They can trick all these other ladies into believing that they're actually good when they aren't; they pull out their flirtatiousness and that cocky attitude and it wins them over. I've only been attracted to geeky and intelligent men with similar interests. I'm sure it's spared me a lot of grief when it comes to relationships. Then again, I'm quite geeky myself, lul.
As for wanting to move on and find a genuinely good man, I'm sure you will be able to eventually if you stick to your guns and don't fall for those bad boys that you sure as hell know it isn't going to work out with. There are plenty of kind, genuine people I've met on WP that are looking for a woman/man to treat them right. In my opinion, this is a good place to start.
19 Jun 2012, 1:17 am
So can a person be dark and brooding yet good at the same time? Or are they instantly judged as bad?
Hipster, I think you see things too much in black and white, good and bad and you aren't realizing that there are shades of grey and that's what a few other posters are trying to highlight to you so I won't bother highlighting it again. There isn't going to be a perfect relationship or perfect guy and you're not going to be able to make it so with whoever you choose to love. The closest you can come to a good relationship is sharing a mutual understanding or bond, realizing that you both want the greater good for each other and working towards that.
19 Jun 2012, 5:28 am
Lots of times bad boys are very attractive even if they aren't so much physically attractive. They talk a damn good game and it's always so flattering. However, once you go out with several you realize it's the same game but just different players. It's always the same and it's about how they can use you to get what they want.
I married one for a little over a year. Hell on earth there, I'll tell you. Was not worth it, but he had convinced me I was the one for him and the only one who truly understood him. That's a very seductive thing even in nonromantic terms. Don't we all have the desire to be very special to someone, whether it's a romantic partner or a friend or even the co-worker that they just can't do without their help?
Bad boys make you feel needed at first. Then they make you feel needy and unreasonable.
It's not that all hot guys do this. My husband now was pretty hot back in the day and wasn't like that although we have our own problems just like every other marriage out there. Bad boys also have this thing they do that somehow or other makes you willing to do anything almost to please them. Their approval can mean so much to a girl who is stuck in a relationship with one. The problem is, you never get their full approval, it's always going to be almost good enough and they feel better about themselves by tearing you down.
Now, bad boys as friends aren't this way in my experience. I have several as friends and I'm just a peer who they don't want anything special from. Once you get to know them in this way, you will never see them on a pedestal again.
Is this supposed to engender sympathy? Cause it's not really doing anything other than proving how delusional some women are when it comes to relationships.
19 Jun 2012, 8:45 am
Lots of times bad boys are very attractive even if they aren't so much physically attractive. They talk a damn good game and it's always so flattering. However, once you go out with several you realize it's the same game but just different players. It's always the same and it's about how they can use you to get what they want.
I married one for a little over a year. Hell on earth there, I'll tell you. Was not worth it, but he had convinced me I was the one for him and the only one who truly understood him. That's a very seductive thing even in nonromantic terms. Don't we all have the desire to be very special to someone, whether it's a romantic partner or a friend or even the co-worker that they just can't do without their help?
Bad boys make you feel needed at first. Then they make you feel needy and unreasonable.
It's not that all hot guys do this. My husband now was pretty hot back in the day and wasn't like that although we have our own problems just like every other marriage out there. Bad boys also have this thing they do that somehow or other makes you willing to do anything almost to please them. Their approval can mean so much to a girl who is stuck in a relationship with one. The problem is, you never get their full approval, it's always going to be almost good enough and they feel better about themselves by tearing you down.
Now, bad boys as friends aren't this way in my experience. I have several as friends and I'm just a peer who they don't want anything special from. Once you get to know them in this way, you will never see them on a pedestal again.
Is this supposed to engender sympathy? Cause it's not really doing anything other than proving how delusional some women are when it comes to relationships.
There's a girl I'm in a counseling group thing with, who's there for a domestic dispute. She supposedly called her husband and said she was gonna kill him. She probably didn't do it, or maybe she did, hell if I know, it's sort of irrelevant. Anyway, her husband was a "bad boy" to the extreme. Been arrested for assaults numerous times, supposedly one time when he beat someone up at a Burger King, the cop actually kept his window rolled up and wouldn't get out of the car. He was supposedly quite "huge" in the powerful way. On the night after their wedding, he was drunk, and tried to steer the car while she was driving to go to his mother's house and almost crashed the car, she ended up just stopping at the mother's house. Yep... He also did things like trading in their cars to buy brand new motorcycles, etc. Basically, she described him as a huge douche.
So eventually, she was asked "Well why'd you marry him?" Basically, she said since he was big and strong, she felt secure, and he had a good job and a decent amount of money, so again, security and being a strong provider. She said she also figured she could change him, or he'd "settle down" eventually.
So there you go, anatomy of a failed marriage. The whole "bad boy" thing is QUITE real.
Oh, regarding the whole approval thing OOM is talking about, here's one. My old boss, his wife cooks dinner for him every night, and he never tells her it's good. He says her cooking is great, but he won't ever tell her it's good, because if he praises it, she might slack off, and then the food will get worse. So by not telling her it's good, she tries to do better everytime. My old boss was pretty damned nuts, but, he knew how to get people to do what he wanted, wow.
19 Jun 2012, 9:52 am
Lots of times bad boys are very attractive even if they aren't so much physically attractive. They talk a damn good game and it's always so flattering. However, once you go out with several you realize it's the same game but just different players. It's always the same and it's about how they can use you to get what they want.
I married one for a little over a year. Hell on earth there, I'll tell you. Was not worth it, but he had convinced me I was the one for him and the only one who truly understood him. That's a very seductive thing even in nonromantic terms. Don't we all have the desire to be very special to someone, whether it's a romantic partner or a friend or even the co-worker that they just can't do without their help?
Bad boys make you feel needed at first. Then they make you feel needy and unreasonable.
It's not that all hot guys do this. My husband now was pretty hot back in the day and wasn't like that although we have our own problems just like every other marriage out there. Bad boys also have this thing they do that somehow or other makes you willing to do anything almost to please them. Their approval can mean so much to a girl who is stuck in a relationship with one. The problem is, you never get their full approval, it's always going to be almost good enough and they feel better about themselves by tearing you down.
Now, bad boys as friends aren't this way in my experience. I have several as friends and I'm just a peer who they don't want anything special from. Once you get to know them in this way, you will never see them on a pedestal again.
Couldn't agree more.
Plus, it seems many of the men here who are bitter about women going for bad boys seem to feel like they have to play the same game to keep up. I think OliveOilMom puts things into perspective on how women get trapped into these relationships, then realise how bad it gets, and sometimes want out.
It makes me sad to hear nice guys want to be a**holes because they think they will attract women. These men are not an ideal in my mind...
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Your Aspie score: 93 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 109 of 200
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19 Jun 2012, 10:10 am
And they do, lest they want to end up with older or less attractive women who have been rejected by bad boys. It's evolution at work.
Men fight for the most attractive women. By showing dominance, they can be succesful in their respective groups. Why is this an acceptable explanation for almost any other mammal, but not for humans?
They settle for less but stable when their looks fade and they're nearing the end of their shelf life for remotely-attractive partners. That's my view on that.
19 Jun 2012, 10:23 am
You're talking about women having a shelf life based on their looks?!?! That's not fair, since men are deemed to get more attractive as they get older (based on money/power).
Yes, that is the superficial way of putting it. I guess superficial men deserve superficial women. Those women are the ones who try to compete for the attention of the bad boys by being the "ideal" that you mention.
Just saying there are women out there who will be turned off by any a**holeness. They have been there, done that, and got the T-shirt. You say they are damaged goods - I say they have wisdom and maturity.
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Your Aspie score: 93 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 109 of 200
You seem to have both Aspie and neurotypical traits
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