Growing up and done with bad boys

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I think our ideas of "bad boys" differ. Because I don't see alpha male traits, assertiveness, confidence...all that as being bad boy.

I see bad boys as exploiters who exploit women for their own ends, and often harm them without any remorse.

So--the reason why I connect bad boys as manipulators is that to me, it makes more sense for someone who's seeking to exploit or abuse women (which women generally don't like to have happen to them) to learn how to manipulate women by pretending to have the qualities that are often attractive--like assertiveness, confidence, generosity...etc.

It would be much easier to exploit or abuse another person if you are mimicking these qualities.

What I meant by "might be on the spectrum" was they might share characteristics of psychopaths and sociopaths--NOT the autistic/AS spectrum.

I can see how using the term "spectrum" could seem like I'm associating AS, but I just meant that NTs, in my opinion, can have a lot of qualities of other personality disorders (like psychopathy) without actually being a diagnosed psychopath--so that spectrum.

And there really isn't any evidence that "bad boys" tend to be closer to psychopaths than NTs, except by my definition--as I define bad boys as exploitive and lacking in care or regard for the harm they cause--and those qualities are also found in diagnosed psychopaths.

In that case, thank you for participating and goodbye. No point in having a discussion when you've defined the term according to your conclusion already.

Alright--I'll have to read your articles to see where you're coming from with the bad boy=alpha male idea. I hadn't read them before.

Exactly---there's no point in arguing about "bad boys" if we have different definitions of them. You seem to identify them as having alpha male qualities whereas I, as a rule of thumb, identify them as having psychopath qualities. (edit--I should say, certain psychopathic qualities like the habit to exploit and lack of regard for others--and/or qualities commonly found in domestic abusers like rigid misogynistic views).

It's like comparing apples to pears. But I'll still read your articles.

Last edited by Zinia on 20 Jun 2012, 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Good point right here, the misogyny and bitterness is strong in this thread.

Expecting a woman to feel obliged to have sex with you because you have been nice or a shoulder to cry on and using kindness as a means of manipulation is no different than a bad boy using aggression to manipulate a woman. The only difference is that the bad boy is more direct, upfront and persistent about it instead of being indiscreet. Some people need to take responsibility and make changes instead of blaming women for their problems.

A lot of psychopathic traits are in fact alpha male traits. More or less the entire DSM-V is a list of trait after trait for making an alpha male, besides the lack of empathy/conscience.

Very true, most genuine nice guys I know are in relationships, it's not really just a matter of niceness and badness, bad boys are a minority after all.

However, I don't think you can deny that bad boys "score" earlier with girls and with plenty in early adulthood and teenage, and yes, often are the ones who were most desired.

Also there are genuine nice guys who were typical bad boys and those are plenty, i know 2 guys closely who were total players and now they totally treat their wives respectfully and right, and they're loyal....I think.

and those who remained bad boys into adulthood, the ones i know at least, are either divorced or seperated (yet they still get loads of dates, usually with way younger girls).







haha same here, but i am getting better reactions from adults too lately .

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That was my point of my question, you interpreted it right, it would be pure discrimination in that case.

Becoming more popular and getting invited to more parties is easier said than done.

especially if you don't have friends or very limited social circle.

In all fairness, I tell them to go find one of their girlfriends if they need a shoulder to cry on or someone to talk to emotions about. I don't expend a calorie on someone without getting something in return. I only engage in activities I enjoy, listening to people b***h and moan without offering me anything of value for doing so is a waste of my time.

That was my approach for the first eighteen years. I assumed it must have been my problem. I assumed I was to blame, and that I was simply not interesting enough. Now, I realise there's nothing about me I can change to an adequate level to get laid in university. I'm happy hoping women will sleep with me later, when I'm more muscular and financially independent, and that women acting stupidly now will be too old and worn-out for me to consider sleeping with when I reach that age. They have fun now, and I'll have fun with the new batch when their lifestyle has collapsed on them. I don't want to fight dozens of men better than me for hand-me-downs, as I'd be stuck doing now.



Learning so I can make much more money later, observing the problems other men are going through, eating much more than I have to so I can be broader and more muscular so women will feel more naturally attracted to me.



Call it bitterness - I call it realism. Being 'just friends' with a woman you might find remotely attractive means subjecting yourself to something that, to women who observe you, reduces your evolutionary value. They don't just see a man being 'friends' with that woman. They see a man unable to have a sexual relationship with that woman, and therefore a man unfit for them. I often compare these men to servants, because that's what they are. I often try to determine my own value by observing men in relationships with women and thinking about how they'd compare to me in terms of looks, speech, physical dominance and display of skills or wealth. If they've clearly been friendzoned, I rank these men below me on at least one field, and I can't help but feel sorry for them. I know how that feels.



It's not so much expecting a woman to feel obliged to have sex with me because I've been nice. I don't expect women to have sex with me for any reason. However, I expect not to be bothered by listening to their emotional misfortune if there's nothing they want to trade for that. I won't expect them to have sex with me, but I expect them to take their emotional problems elsewhere if they've not already had sex with me. As TM said, it's a waste of my time.

I don't know, for the emotional problem thing, for me it's less being used as an IW, and more that I'm an idiot with anyone's emotional problems, and instead of being like "aww I understand, it's all right" and I'm like "so you should just like, do ____, and then _____" or if it's a problem I know nothing about, I just am like "Look, I know nothing about how to solve this problem." Because I don't really "see" things in emotions as much. So then everyone gets pissed at me, even male friends stop talking to me as I'm unable to give them emotional support. I think it's because people will say "_____ made me feel _____" and my way of looking at things is more like "_____ made ____ and ____ happen, and it's good/bad." Feelings are only coincidental to me. I'm highly alexithymic, so I can barely recognize my own feelings, nevermind others, so yeah. For me when I describe stuff, it's more like "this made me feel good, this made me feel bad" and occasionally "this got me pissed." That's about the extent of my emotional connection to myself. I'm really reluctant to use words like "depressed" and stuff, as I don't really know what they mean as far as how they relate to my feelings. So when people ask how I "feel" I usually go on long essays about why things happened and why they're good or bad.

Anyway, though, the attitude of not doing unless you're getting something in return, it's not really a Godly attitude, I mean you shouldn't let yourself be taken advantage of, but there is such a thing as kindness for kindness sake, giving without expecting anything in return. If that's truly your attitude, if you'll never give or be charitable without expecting anything back, well, have fun I guess.

I don't have any female friends. Any woman who'd tell me about emotional problems would be a stranger or an acquaintance, and not worth the effort.

What sucks is I hurt women all the time and I don't even realize it.