Growing up and done with bad boys

Page 3 of 14 [ 206 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 14 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

OliveOilMom
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Age:51
Posts: 11,059
Location: About 50 miles past the middle of nowhere

19 Jun 2012, 10:53 am

HisDivineMajesty wrote:

deltafunction wrote:

Plus, it seems many of the men here who are bitter about women going for bad boys seem to feel like they have to play the same game to keep up.

And they do, lest they want to end up with older or less attractive women who have been rejected by bad boys. It's evolution at work.
Men fight for the most attractive women. By showing dominance, they can be succesful in their respective groups. Why is this an acceptable explanation for almost any other mammal, but not for humans?

deltafunction wrote:

I think OliveOilMom puts things into perspective on how women get trapped into these relationships, then realise how bad it gets, and sometimes want out.

They settle for less but stable when their looks fade and they're nearing the end of their shelf life for remotely-attractive partners. That's my view on that.

My best friend is almost my age, still very attractive and single and can get just about any guy she goes after. Age isn't the problem.

Of course, most women won't want anything to do with a guy who decides that women over 30 must settle and are near the "end of their shelf life". Most women would be happy to let that particular guy just be alone. The attitude and disdain still comes through even if you don't say those words.

_________________
Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.

OliveOilMom
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Age:51
Posts: 11,059
Location: About 50 miles past the middle of nowhere

19 Jun 2012, 10:54 am

rabbittss wrote:

OliveOilMom wrote:

Also, for you guys, I'd like to explain somewhat of the bad boy "image" and why it's attractive to some girls. It has more to do with, I think, or desire to be "the perfect one for them" who they do straighten up for. The one who finally understands them and doesn't judge them and gets to see a different side to them. Sort of like the girl who kisses the frog and he turns into Prince Charming for her. It's not so much ego as to be this so great and attractive and sought after girl as it is to be the one special one to them who makes the difference.

Lots of times bad boys are very attractive even if they aren't so much physically attractive. They talk a damn good game and it's always so flattering. However, once you go out with several you realize it's the same game but just different players. It's always the same and it's about how they can use you to get what they want.

I married one for a little over a year. Hell on earth there, I'll tell you. Was not worth it, but he had convinced me I was the one for him and the only one who truly understood him. That's a very seductive thing even in nonromantic terms. Don't we all have the desire to be very special to someone, whether it's a romantic partner or a friend or even the co-worker that they just can't do without their help?

Bad boys make you feel needed at first. Then they make you feel needy and unreasonable.

It's not that all hot guys do this. My husband now was pretty hot back in the day and wasn't like that although we have our own problems just like every other marriage out there. Bad boys also have this thing they do that somehow or other makes you willing to do anything almost to please them. Their approval can mean so much to a girl who is stuck in a relationship with one. The problem is, you never get their full approval, it's always going to be almost good enough and they feel better about themselves by tearing you down.

Now, bad boys as friends aren't this way in my experience. I have several as friends and I'm just a peer who they don't want anything special from. Once you get to know them in this way, you will never see them on a pedestal again.

Is this supposed to engender sympathy? Cause it's not really doing anything other than proving how delusional some women are when it comes to relationships.

No, not at all. I certainly don't want or need sympathy. I was simply explaining how it works with some women. It's also not delusional, it's a normal human need to want to be very special to someone else.

_________________
Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.

HisDivineMajesty
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Age:22
Posts: 1,364
Location: Planet Earth

19 Jun 2012, 11:18 am

deltafunction wrote:

You're talking about women having a shelf life based on their looks?!?! That's not fair, since men are deemed to get more attractive as they get older (based on money/power).

Life isn't fair. This situation is rather balanced. In the crucial early phase of dating, men select partners based primarily on physical attraction; women select partners based primarily on status. And while there might be exceptions, the general rule is that younger women are considered more physically attractive, and older men have more status. Women can have fun (and by fun, I mean 'this thread will be moved to adult issues if I describe it') with the cool guys when they're young and settle for the beta guys when they're older; men have to settle for a bit less when they're young and can get much more when they're older.

deltafunction wrote:

It's not a superficial way of putting it. It's a way of putting it that is inspired by the deepest of human urges and needs. What I'm saying is what has been observed in other species, and largely also in humans. You can say you like intelligent, in-depth men, but if you're a woman, chances are status is the first crucial point you look for, even if you don't immediately realise that.

1000Knives wrote:

Basically, she described him as a huge douche.

So eventually, she was asked "Well why'd you marry him?" Basically, she said since he was big and strong, she felt secure, and he had a good job and a decent amount of money, so again, security and being a strong provider.

This is a pattern I recognise.

deltafunction
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Jun 2012
Age:24
Posts: 1,094
Location: Lost

19 Jun 2012, 11:40 am

I'm trying to hold my frustration back, so hopefully I will get my point across.

DivineMajesty, you see this behaviour in young women, but don't understand why they do it. Some young women don't know what they want, and that's why they go for these bad boys. Or they just want to be swept off their feet, or just what OliveOilMom said. This is because they are young and immature. Who wants to be treated like s***, like most of these bad boys do. We get smart and figure that out, some sooner than others.

That's my story, but some women saw through the bad boy facade all along. Others never get out of it. But it doesn't mean we are settling just because we feel we deserve to be treated better. As OliveOilMom said, men can be alpha males and still treat women well. Some guys are just wolves in sheep's clothing when it comes to women, and have ulterior motives for nice behaviour.

I can tell you what I find attractive in men, but I won't, because you won't believe me if I say it's anything other than the epitome of a male bad boy. Just like there are sensitive men who do not fit the social norm, there are women who don't just go for anyone who is willing to get into a physical fight for them.

Also, I know a friend who doesn't know what she wants. She goes for bad boys. She even broke the heart of a bad boy who she "fixed", by leaving him for another bad boy. I wouldn't say she is the most attractive woman out there. But she is nice, and sweet on the outside. To me and my boyfriend, it's obvious that she does this because she is immature, not because all the alpha males are going after her. If she could make up her mind, she would also have landed a very attractive dude who is only into monogamy.

_________________
Your Aspie score: 93 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 109 of 200
You seem to have both Aspie and neurotypical traits

TM
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Feb 2012
Age:32
Posts: 2,122

19 Jun 2012, 12:23 pm

deltafunction wrote:

HisDivineMajesty wrote:

They settle for less but stable when their looks fade and they're nearing the end of their shelf life for remotely-attractive partners. That's my view on that.

You're talking about women having a shelf life based on their looks?!?! That's not fair, since men are deemed to get more attractive as they get older (based on money/power).

Men don't decide that, women do. Men wouldn't be deemed more attractive as they get older if all you women didn't want to f**k Sean Connery.

deltafunction wrote:

HisDivineMajesty wrote:

Men fight for the most attractive women. By showing dominance, they can be succesful in their respective groups. Why is this an acceptable explanation for almost any other mammal, but not for humans?

Yes, that is the superficial way of putting it. I guess superficial men deserve superficial women. Those women are the ones who try to compete for the attention of the bad boys by being the "ideal" that you mention.

Just saying there are women out there who will be turned off by any a**holeness. They have been there, done that, and got the T-shirt. You say they are damaged goods - I say they have wisdom and maturity.

In essence, it depends on what kind of woman you desire, would you prefer a fairly new and shiny one, or do you want one who's been around the block a few times, has some dings here and there and more baggage than Beijing Capital International Airport.

This is in part hyperbole/literary license, but I once heard someone say "I didn't use to be a misogynist, but then women turned me into one". Men like attractive women, if the odds of being with an attractive woman is higher for a misogynistic, self-centered as*hole, then that's what men will become. Chivalry is dead, and women killed it.

BlueMax
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Age:41
Posts: 5,284

19 Jun 2012, 1:13 pm

mds_02 wrote:

I think the problem a lot of guys have is that they don't want to be the logical rational choice. They want to feel wanted. A girl says something like this, and they hear "what I really wanted isn't working, so I guess I'll give you a shot." They fear that the girl, who has matured and changed her mind about the type of guy she wants, will never feel the same excitement and passion about him that she felt about the guys she used to go for. No one wants to feel their partner settled for them.

The way some guys word things here could stand to be a lot less confrontational. But is it really so awful to want to feel like someone's first choice, rather than their consolation prize?

This. This right here. I can't stress enough how much of a downer it is to feel like I'm being settled for. Worse - when she craves the excitement she once thrived on, will she leave me for Mr. Exciting? Or will she be "getting some" on the side?

Being 2nd prize hurts. Being dumped or cheated on for Mister 1st Prize hurts even more.

deltafunction
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Jun 2012
Age:24
Posts: 1,094
Location: Lost

19 Jun 2012, 1:54 pm

TM wrote:

Seems to me that the women who go for bad boys/bad boys who go for the attractive women would be the ones who have been around more. Those kinds of relationships don't last. You always find someone who would be more attractive.

I used to go for bad boys. It was fun to be wanted, and I just wanted to have fun. I had to consciously choose whether to go for bad boys, or someone who wanted only me, though. I wasn't used to being in a long-term relationship. If I didn't give it up, I would keep moving from one partner to the other. I'd probably cheat as well.

I had to choose, though. I don't regret it. I have everything I need in my boyfriend, and he shows me that I am the only one for him. I'd rather that over someone who makes me feel like I am not good enough.

And no, I don't feel like I am settling, I am just not deluding myself. If I make a list of things I would want in a boyfriend, he would fill them all.

_________________
Your Aspie score: 93 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 109 of 200
You seem to have both Aspie and neurotypical traits

biostructure
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Age:30
Posts: 1,290

19 Jun 2012, 2:15 pm

Wolfheart wrote:

So can a person be dark and brooding yet good at the same time? Or are they instantly judged as bad?

Yes, exactly what I was thinking. Some of us aspies are quite intense and have issues with being moody, overambitious, etc. Though unfortunately, I don't meet many women like this.

I am very much drawn to excitement and mystery in women. Just sharing ordinary life with someone is boring. Since I'm intellectually ambitious and romantic myself, I want a woman to see my mind as if it were a book that she can't put down. I would also want to see her mind, and body, that same way. However, if women try and create that mystery through social posturing and games, it's as if their "book" is written in Chinese--they're nothing more than a momentary distraction or body to ogle and aren't the types I develop crushes on.

I want someone I can understand, and at the same time be amazed at how novel her thought patterns are. This usually means that I go for cute, zany, mysterious girls who can intellectualize in the open-ended, "mad" ways that I really could not make use of in a career or read in a textbook. In return, I'm better at understanding, and have thought more about, science than them, and can teach them stuff. Because I have been rejected or "friend zoned" by every one of these so far, I'm starting to wonder if these are the equivalent of "bad boys" in girls. But they're not "bad" intentionally--they're just flat out unattracted, whereas I misread it as their mind not having been seduced yet.

DogsWithoutHorses
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 5 Apr 2012
Age:22
Posts: 1,145
Location: New York

19 Jun 2012, 2:22 pm

biostructure wrote:

Wolfheart wrote:

So can a person be dark and brooding yet good at the same time? Or are they instantly judged as bad?

sorry for off topic (I'm not getting in to all this stuff)
but I think the bolded is really beautiful

_________________
If your success is defined as being well adjusted to injustice and well adapted to indifference, then we don?t want successful leaders. We want great leaders- who are unbought, unbound, unafraid, and unintimidated to tell the truth.

TM
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Feb 2012
Age:32
Posts: 2,122

19 Jun 2012, 2:36 pm

deltafunction wrote:

TM wrote:

And no, I don't feel like I am settling, I am just not deluding myself. If I make a list of things I would want in a boyfriend, he would fill them all.

The funny bit about those lists is that they never really match reality. If women (and to a lesser degree men) actually knew what they wanted, relationships, dating and so on would be simple. Also, unless you've been together long enough for the "love drug" to wear off, your opinion may rapidly change.

deltafunction
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Jun 2012
Age:24
Posts: 1,094
Location: Lost

19 Jun 2012, 2:43 pm

TM wrote:

deltafunction wrote:

TM wrote:

And no, I don't feel like I am settling, I am just not deluding myself. If I make a list of things I would want in a boyfriend, he would fill them all.

See, most women don't know what they want. I didn't know either until I made that decision to stay in a long-term relationship. And what made me choose to stay was me realising that I wanted in a boyfriend everything that my boyfriend had. If I let him go, I would regret it. He was a nice guy who was fed up girls going for bad boys as well. But I still find him pretty attractive.

Also, three years is long enough for the drug to wear off, I'd say

_________________
Your Aspie score: 93 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 109 of 200
You seem to have both Aspie and neurotypical traits

TM
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Feb 2012
Age:32
Posts: 2,122

19 Jun 2012, 2:56 pm

deltafunction wrote:

TM wrote:

deltafunction wrote:

TM wrote:

And no, I don't feel like I am settling, I am just not deluding myself. If I make a list of things I would want in a boyfriend, he would fill them all.

See, most women don't know what they want. I didn't know either until I made that decision to stay in a long-term relationship. And what made me choose to stay was me realising that I wanted in a boyfriend everything that my boyfriend had. If I let him go, I would regret it. He was a nice guy who was fed up girls going for bad boys as well. But I still find him pretty attractive.

Also, three years is long enough for the drug to wear off, I'd say

The bolded bit sounds quite a lot like settling to me.

HisDivineMajesty
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Age:22
Posts: 1,364
Location: Planet Earth

19 Jun 2012, 3:04 pm

deltafunction wrote:

I used to go for bad boys. It was fun to be wanted, and I just wanted to have fun.

There we have it. It's always nice to see the other camp whole-heartedly agreeing with me.

deltafunction wrote:

I had to consciously choose whether to go for bad boys, or someone who wanted only me, though. I wasn't used to being in a long-term relationship. If I didn't give it up, I would keep moving from one partner to the other. I'd probably cheat as well.

It's good you admit that. Proper information means you've won half the battle before even starting. If people were honest like that, we wouldn't have a problem with nice guys.

deltafunction wrote:

And no, I don't feel like I am settling, I am just not deluding myself. If I make a list of things I would want in a boyfriend, he would fill them all.

Your thoughts. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. How old are you?

HipsterChick
Hummingbird

Joined: 17 Jun 2012
Age:33
Posts: 22
Location: In a state of Misery

19 Jun 2012, 3:19 pm

HisDivineMajesty wrote:

This is insulting. I am looking for a deeper connection in a man than some money grubbing tool. I would settle for a down to earth poet or musician over a god or king or someone who thinks he is.

_________________
"A dreamer is one who can only find his way by moonlight, and his punishment is that he sees the dawn before the rest of the world." Oscar Wilde

Zinia
Deinonychus

Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Age:32
Posts: 344

19 Jun 2012, 3:22 pm

biostructure wrote:

I think your concept of romance is noble. Most women would be absolutely turned off (if not disgusted) with some of the analogies in this thread about "settling" for a woman who has "been around the block" and has "dings." That's not romantic, that's what people think when they go to buy a car--not when they consider romance. Maybe that's why some women go for "bad boys," because they know that the bad boys really aren't shopping for a "car" or a piece of "real estate." But I think that it's more likely that most of these bad boys are actually very adept at non-verbal communication. People with Antisocial Personality Disorder, like psychopaths, are extremely proficient at mimicking non-verbal cues, reading people, and presenting themselves in a desirable light.

I think you should consider that even though you have AS, and some women's social posturing and games are like "Chinese" to you, that many of the women you've been attracted to might not have AS. So it might improve your success if you try to study a little bit of the nonverbal cues that go on with flirting and the initial contact. You might be perfectly attractive to the girls you are interested in, however you are not sending the non-verbal signals to them that show them that you are considering courting them.

Page 3 of 14 [ 206 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 14 Next

Jump to:

Growing up and done with bad boys Post Reply New Topic

Growing up and done with bad boys