the secret in why women play games with men

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hyperlexian
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23 Aug 2012, 4:11 am

i don't know the conversation that ensued in between the compliment about the shoes and the bedroom, FMX. i have my own ideas (i talk a lot and can often get people talking as well), but i am not sure what my friend actually said next.


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spongy
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23 Aug 2012, 7:43 am

hyperlexian wrote:
spongy wrote:
FMX wrote:
yellowtamarin wrote:
If I was interested in continuing things further I should say so (e.g. "I'm just going to see how my friend is doing but I'd like to continue this conversation later on"), just as he ought to really let me know he is interested.


So what is the way that a man can let a woman know he's interested? Not that I'm likely to actually do it, but still, could be a handy thing to know. :) I honestly don't understand how people do this. It seems to "just happen". But how?

One of the many books Ive read lately has a simple principle: you dont approach anyone without a motive.
Make sure that you have a plausible explanation for approaching someone ready before you do anything and make a point to tell your reason to be there verbally/non verbally within the first minutes.

If you dont do this the other person is likely to start being concerned about why you approached them and chances are they´ll find a reason to end the conversation rather soon.

The book says I dont care if your reason is that you were attracted to the other person or whatever but you´ll find that there are some times when its better to let them guess your intentions rather than outright say: I have no reason for approaching you I just think you are hot.

a friend of mine once sparked up a conversation with a woman because he said something along the lines of, "my sister has the same shoes as you." i am not sure if that qualifies as a reason for a conversation, but it stuck in my mind as a brilliant way to get a conversation going. to me it was effective because the comment:

1. focused on her accessory, not her body
2. showed he had noticed something about her
3. showed that he might have a decent enough relationship with another female in his life as he paid attention
4. had a logical conclusion, so if the conversation didn't go anywhere he could exit gracefully

EDIT: i should add, the conversation "went" somewhere :wink:


Anything can hypothetically work and is better than not approaching someone and just staring at them.

One of my boldest moves involved approaching a girl by telling her that her cheeks turned way too pink with the sun.
Somehow I had the confidence to pull of a joke-ish conversation about it and when we met again I brought it up a few times... Believe it or not we ended up spending quite a lot of time together(people joked about us being a couple...) but once we started getting to know each other she was clear about having a partner and I told her that I liked spending time with her and I wasnt looking for anything else.



The_Face_of_Boo
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23 Aug 2012, 8:42 am

spongy wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
spongy wrote:
FMX wrote:
yellowtamarin wrote:
If I was interested in continuing things further I should say so (e.g. "I'm just going to see how my friend is doing but I'd like to continue this conversation later on"), just as he ought to really let me know he is interested.


So what is the way that a man can let a woman know he's interested? Not that I'm likely to actually do it, but still, could be a handy thing to know. :) I honestly don't understand how people do this. It seems to "just happen". But how?

One of the many books Ive read lately has a simple principle: you dont approach anyone without a motive.
Make sure that you have a plausible explanation for approaching someone ready before you do anything and make a point to tell your reason to be there verbally/non verbally within the first minutes.

If you dont do this the other person is likely to start being concerned about why you approached them and chances are they´ll find a reason to end the conversation rather soon.

The book says I dont care if your reason is that you were attracted to the other person or whatever but you´ll find that there are some times when its better to let them guess your intentions rather than outright say: I have no reason for approaching you I just think you are hot.

a friend of mine once sparked up a conversation with a woman because he said something along the lines of, "my sister has the same shoes as you." i am not sure if that qualifies as a reason for a conversation, but it stuck in my mind as a brilliant way to get a conversation going. to me it was effective because the comment:

1. focused on her accessory, not her body
2. showed he had noticed something about her
3. showed that he might have a decent enough relationship with another female in his life as he paid attention
4. had a logical conclusion, so if the conversation didn't go anywhere he could exit gracefully

EDIT: i should add, the conversation "went" somewhere :wink:


Anything can hypothetically work and is better than not approaching someone and just staring at them.

One of my boldest moves involved approaching a girl by telling her that her cheeks turned way too pink with the sun.
Somehow I had the confidence to pull of a joke-ish conversation about it and when we met again I brought it up a few times... Believe it or not we ended up spending quite a lot of time together(people joked about us being a couple...) but once we started getting to know each other she was clear about having a partner and I told her that I liked spending time with her and I wasnt looking for anything else.


And that's a mistake, were you really really really just not looking of anything else? With that response you have friendzoned yourself with her for good.

Just make a honest humorous non-dramatic reaction like : "darn, I was just about to ask you for a mind-blowing date" ---> she'll ask you what kind of date you were planning.

or in humorous tone "Ok,keep be in mind that l'll try to be your next bf, just in case".



The_Face_of_Boo
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23 Aug 2012, 8:44 am

spongy wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
spongy wrote:
FMX wrote:
yellowtamarin wrote:
If I was interested in continuing things further I should say so (e.g. "I'm just going to see how my friend is doing but I'd like to continue this conversation later on"), just as he ought to really let me know he is interested.


So what is the way that a man can let a woman know he's interested? Not that I'm likely to actually do it, but still, could be a handy thing to know. :) I honestly don't understand how people do this. It seems to "just happen". But how?

One of the many books Ive read lately has a simple principle: you dont approach anyone without a motive.
Make sure that you have a plausible explanation for approaching someone ready before you do anything and make a point to tell your reason to be there verbally/non verbally within the first minutes.

If you dont do this the other person is likely to start being concerned about why you approached them and chances are they´ll find a reason to end the conversation rather soon.

The book says I dont care if your reason is that you were attracted to the other person or whatever but you´ll find that there are some times when its better to let them guess your intentions rather than outright say: I have no reason for approaching you I just think you are hot.

a friend of mine once sparked up a conversation with a woman because he said something along the lines of, "my sister has the same shoes as you." i am not sure if that qualifies as a reason for a conversation, but it stuck in my mind as a brilliant way to get a conversation going. to me it was effective because the comment:

1. focused on her accessory, not her body
2. showed he had noticed something about her
3. showed that he might have a decent enough relationship with another female in his life as he paid attention
4. had a logical conclusion, so if the conversation didn't go anywhere he could exit gracefully

EDIT: i should add, the conversation "went" somewhere :wink:


Anything can hypothetically work and is better than not approaching someone and just staring at them.

One of my boldest moves involved approaching a girl by telling her that her cheeks turned way too pink with the sun.
Somehow I had the confidence to pull of a joke-ish conversation about it and when we met again I brought it up a few times... Believe it or not we ended up spending quite a lot of time together(people joked about us being a couple...) but once we started getting to know each other she was clear about having a partner and I told her that I liked spending time with her and I wasnt looking for anything else.


And that's a mistake, were you really really really just not looking for anything else? I highly doubt it, with that response you have friendzoned yourself with her for good, regardless of how fragile or strong her relationship is.

Just make a honest humorous non-dramatic reaction like : "darn, I was just about to ask you for a mind-blowing saturday date" ---> she'll ask you what kind of date you were planning.

or in humorous tone "Ok, keep in mind that l'll try to be your next bf, just in case".



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 23 Aug 2012, 8:46 am, edited 2 times in total.

spongy
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23 Aug 2012, 8:44 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
spongy wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
spongy wrote:
FMX wrote:
yellowtamarin wrote:
If I was interested in continuing things further I should say so (e.g. "I'm just going to see how my friend is doing but I'd like to continue this conversation later on"), just as he ought to really let me know he is interested.


So what is the way that a man can let a woman know he's interested? Not that I'm likely to actually do it, but still, could be a handy thing to know. :) I honestly don't understand how people do this. It seems to "just happen". But how?

One of the many books Ive read lately has a simple principle: you dont approach anyone without a motive.
Make sure that you have a plausible explanation for approaching someone ready before you do anything and make a point to tell your reason to be there verbally/non verbally within the first minutes.

If you dont do this the other person is likely to start being concerned about why you approached them and chances are they´ll find a reason to end the conversation rather soon.

The book says I dont care if your reason is that you were attracted to the other person or whatever but you´ll find that there are some times when its better to let them guess your intentions rather than outright say: I have no reason for approaching you I just think you are hot.

a friend of mine once sparked up a conversation with a woman because he said something along the lines of, "my sister has the same shoes as you." i am not sure if that qualifies as a reason for a conversation, but it stuck in my mind as a brilliant way to get a conversation going. to me it was effective because the comment:

1. focused on her accessory, not her body
2. showed he had noticed something about her
3. showed that he might have a decent enough relationship with another female in his life as he paid attention
4. had a logical conclusion, so if the conversation didn't go anywhere he could exit gracefully

EDIT: i should add, the conversation "went" somewhere :wink:


Anything can hypothetically work and is better than not approaching someone and just staring at them.

One of my boldest moves involved approaching a girl by telling her that her cheeks turned way too pink with the sun.
Somehow I had the confidence to pull of a joke-ish conversation about it and when we met again I brought it up a few times... Believe it or not we ended up spending quite a lot of time together(people joked about us being a couple...) but once we started getting to know each other she was clear about having a partner and I told her that I liked spending time with her and I wasnt looking for anything else.


And that's a mistake, were you really really really just not looking of anything else? With that response you have friendzoned yourself with her for good.

Just make a honest humorous non-dramatic reaction like : "darn, I was just about to ask you for a mind-blowing date" ---> she'll ask you what kind of date you were planning.

or in humorous tone "Ok,keep be in mind that l'll try to be your next bf, just in case".


I was 14 at the time. Didnt have much experience which is probably one of the reasons I had so much confidence, I was unaware of how hard this things actually were



The_Face_of_Boo
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23 Aug 2012, 8:49 am

Ah...14, nevermind.



aSKperger
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23 Aug 2012, 9:02 am

Quote:
No matter what anyone says, thinks, feels, does during the conversation though, I still want to be able to walk away without being chased. Even if he is the guy of my dreams. Even if I have told him so. If I walk away, I still think it's up to me to come back.

Why is him chasing you such a problem for you. What are you afraid of, why do you want him to stay there?

Quote:
Am I missing out on opportunities when a guy walks away from me and I don't follow him? That's a disturbing thought.


I am sure you do. But the question is, what type of guy do you want? Good, bad, alpha, fatherly... ?

Quote:
Why do I need to be explicit in this case, if he is not? If he's using body language, etc., then I'm going to assume he feels he can read mine.
Do I know because HE is the one who approached ME? If that's all he needs to do to show me he is interested, then all I should need to do to show him I'm not is WALK AWAY. Seems like the appropriate response?


:D Because he is a man. For most of us, you (women) are the inventory from "Alice in Wonderland". Most of us are completely lost with your reactions, way of thinking, body language etc. You are from different planet (Mars vs Venus, haven't you read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Pease#Books ??? If not, do it! :) ). If you think you understand us, good for you. But don't assume the vice versa - that we understand you. Most of us don't. That's part of the reason why they are chasing you :)



machf
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23 Aug 2012, 3:05 pm

That "Men are from Mars, women are from Venus" thing is outdated...
:wink:
Image
Image



aSKperger
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23 Aug 2012, 6:45 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: the first one is great, where should I but it? My gfs would love it 8)



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23 Aug 2012, 7:59 pm

aSKperger wrote:
Quote:
No matter what anyone says, thinks, feels, does during the conversation though, I still want to be able to walk away without being chased. Even if he is the guy of my dreams. Even if I have told him so. If I walk away, I still think it's up to me to come back.

Why is him chasing you such a problem for you. What are you afraid of, why do you want him to stay there?

It's not "such a problem" really and I'm not afraid, it's just kind of annoying/frustrating. I would want him to stay there (or talk to someone more interested, or whatever) because following me is wasting both of our time. He could be meeting someone who likes him, and I could be meeting someone I like.

All I'm really trying to say is that the OP is probably giving good advice on understanding female game players, but it sucks for us women who aren't game players, because it encourages this type of behaviour which is annoying and is playing a game "back" that I'm not even playing. I'm more attracted to the type of guy who is clueless about games, or refuses to play them. I wouldn't want to encourage these sort of men to learn the rules or choose to play them, because they'd end up getting the other women, not me ;) Yeah, it's just selfishness of course, hehe.

Quote:
Quote:
Am I missing out on opportunities when a guy walks away from me and I don't follow him? That's a disturbing thought.


I am sure you do. But the question is, what type of guy do you want? Good, bad, alpha, fatherly... ?

Err...good? Certainly not bad or alpha. What do you mean by this? Which ones do you think would be more likely to follow me?

Quote:
Quote:
Why do I need to be explicit in this case, if he is not? If he's using body language, etc., then I'm going to assume he feels he can read mine.
Do I know because HE is the one who approached ME? If that's all he needs to do to show me he is interested, then all I should need to do to show him I'm not is WALK AWAY. Seems like the appropriate response?


:D Because he is a man. For most of us, you (women) are the inventory from "Alice in Wonderland". Most of us are completely lost with your reactions, way of thinking, body language etc. You are from different planet (Mars vs Venus, haven't you read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Pease#Books ??? If not, do it! :) ). If you think you understand us, good for you. But don't assume the vice versa - that we understand you. Most of us don't. That's part of the reason why they are chasing you :)

Yeah, this is basically my point. These "game playing" instructions are needed to help men understand most women (or at least most women at a bar or similar situation I suppose). I believe (and I could be wrong, but I hope not) I am pretty easy to understand, because I'm straight-forward and lack subtlety and game-playing skills. I'm have more of a "male mind", and I think a lot of AS women would be similar. We CAN be understood, because what you see is what you get. But the OPs post is written for understanding women with more of a "female mind", which is fine, but it means that women like me are misunderstood because men think our straight-forward actions are actually some silly game. Everybody loses out in this case.

Also when I asked "how do I know he is interested?", I didn't mention that actually, I probably DON'T know he's interested, if all I have to go on is that he approached me. He could find me a Monet (only looks good from a distance), he could hate my voice, he could discover after a few sentences that he doesn't like communicating with me. So if HE walked away, I'd assume that was because he had learnt more about me and decided he wasn't interested. Which is what has happened if I walk away from him.



machf
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23 Aug 2012, 8:03 pm

aSKperger wrote:
:lol: :lol: :lol: the first one is great, where should I but it? My gfs would love it 8)

That one was fictional (from an episode of "Step by step" several years ago), but while searching, I found out there's this one with a similar title:
Women Aren't from Venus, Men Are Pigs!: Inspired by True Stories
Life plagiarizing art?
:wink:



aSKperger
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24 Aug 2012, 6:01 am

Quote:
It's not "such a problem" really and I'm not afraid, it's just kind of annoying/frustrating.


Sure, but it bothers you and it is easy to avoid this situation and feelings.

Quote:
I'm more attracted to the type of guy who is clueless about games, or refuses to play them. I wouldn't want to encourage these sort of men to learn the rules or choose to play them, because they'd end up getting the other women, not me

I believe (and I could be wrong, but I hope not) I am pretty easy to understand, because I'm straight-forward and lack subtlety and game-playing skills


eee you contradict your previous posts. That's why I have problems to fully understand your position.
That touching & gaze stuff is all part of the game. Not gaming means coming to someone and speak totally directly to him/her. "I like you; I like your ... I want ..." without any kino escalation and other PUA stuff.

Now, may it be that you like to game with someone likeable, but if you are not attracted, you want him to act neutral? Something like "Geez I am hot today, and enjoy when attractive guys notice me. But wtf this homeless wants?! Go away!" ? ;)

Quote:
Err...good? Certainly not bad or alpha. What do you mean by this? Which ones do you think would be more likely to follow me?


:) well, someone unexperienced, with lower self confidence, thoughtful (not wanting to chase & bother you), too kind, nice, someone with AS etc would not follow you - and you "loose" them ;) But of course it depends and this is only one of many indicators.


Quote:
He could find me a Monet (only looks good from a distance), he could hate my voice, he could discover after a few sentences that he doesn't like communicating with me. So if HE walked away, I'd assume that was because he had learnt more about me and decided he wasn't interested. Which is what has happened if I walk away from him.


Yes I see, I am the same. But I have learned this way of thinking is rare. Most of the people would not simply walk away. They would say "oh I would love to continue our chat, but I need new drink/make a call/go piss/whatever BS, so we will talk later maybe". Is it crap? Or is it true, so you simply follow her cause you want to continue? And this excuses/trying to be "nice" are the core of misunderstandings. The only way to avoid it is to be direct and clear. Now you can't expect this from others, but you can do it yourself. And after they see you are straight, they would mimic (and if not, I dump them).

machf - yeah I made some searching too and realized it's Dana. And still thinking about purchasing the book. But as you write, could it contain anything I or my gfs don't know/experienced before? :lol:



Stalk
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24 Aug 2012, 6:12 am

so yellowtamarin has got more of a male mind, yet expects men to know things and it appears she expects men to do the pursuing. yellowtamarin, have you done some pursuing of your own and what was your experience?



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24 Aug 2012, 6:50 am

If someone walked away from me I wouldn`t follow them, maybe some people are just clingy?



yellowtamarin
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24 Aug 2012, 7:21 am

aSKperger wrote:
Quote:
I'm more attracted to the type of guy who is clueless about games, or refuses to play them. I wouldn't want to encourage these sort of men to learn the rules or choose to play them, because they'd end up getting the other women, not me

I believe (and I could be wrong, but I hope not) I am pretty easy to understand, because I'm straight-forward and lack subtlety and game-playing skills


eee you contradict your previous posts. That's why I have problems to fully understand your position.
That touching & gaze stuff is all part of the game. Not gaming means coming to someone and speak totally directly to him/her. "I like you; I like your ... I want ..." without any kino escalation and other PUA stuff.

Now, may it be that you like to game with someone likeable, but if you are not attracted, you want him to act neutral? Something like "Geez I am hot today, and enjoy when attractive guys notice me. But wtf this homeless wants?! Go away!" ? ;)

I don't see any contradiction. I think I did ask earlier if the body language stuff would also be considered part of the game. If so, then fair enough. But in my view that's just a different kind of communication to verbal communication, and it's what you do before you have made up your mind on how you feel, so it would be unwise to state "I'm interested in you" at this point, when you are still getting to know each other and having a bit of fun (i.e. flirting, it's fun. Just stating how you feel ruins the flirting part, which I don't see as "game-playing" - which is manipulation - but simply a part of seduction).

Quote:
Quote:
Err...good? Certainly not bad or alpha. What do you mean by this? Which ones do you think would be more likely to follow me?


:) well, someone unexperienced, with lower self confidence, thoughtful (not wanting to chase & bother you), too kind, nice, someone with AS etc would not follow you - and you "loose" them ;) But of course it depends and this is only one of many indicators.

I wouldn't lose them, because if I'm interested, I'll come back. I'm not a game player. This part of our conversation was about ME not following HIM. If I'm supposed to follow him also, then men are playing the same game women play, and this thread shouldn't be gender-specific.

Quote:
Quote:
He could find me a Monet (only looks good from a distance), he could hate my voice, he could discover after a few sentences that he doesn't like communicating with me. So if HE walked away, I'd assume that was because he had learnt more about me and decided he wasn't interested. Which is what has happened if I walk away from him.


Yes I see, I am the same. But I have learned this way of thinking is rare. Most of the people would not simply walk away. They would say "oh I would love to continue our chat, but I need new drink/make a call/go piss/whatever BS, so we will talk later maybe". Is it crap? Or is it true, so you simply follow her cause you want to continue? And this excuses/trying to be "nice" are the core of misunderstandings. The only way to avoid it is to be direct and clear. Now you can't expect this from others, but you can do it yourself. And after they see you are straight, they would mimic (and if not, I dump them).

I stick to my view that if I said that and meant it, then I will return. It's up to me to return, not up to him to chase me down.



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24 Aug 2012, 7:28 am

Stalk wrote:
so yellowtamarin has got more of a male mind, yet expects men to know things and it appears she expects men to do the pursuing. yellowtamarin, have you done some pursuing of your own and what was your experience?

When did I say I expect men to do the pursuing? Everything I've said is in response to the OP, which is talking about the situation (as I understand it) where a man has approached a women, she has left, but expects the man to understand that this means he should go after her. I haven't said anything about me pursuing men. I do pursue men, and the situation is exactly the same. If he leaves me, I allow him to do what he needs to do and if he is interested he can come back to me.

EDIT: I have reread the OP and see the scenario talks about the woman going up to the man, not the other way around. I think I got confused where aSKpergers said something about "you know he's interested". Anyway, that doesn't change my views though, everything still applies.

As for expecting men to know things, what are you referring to? I see it quite differently. Okay yes, I would like to be able to expect a man to know that if I end the conversation and walk away from him, that that doesn't mean I want him to follow after me. That's not any kind of special "understanding women" thing, it seems like common sense to me. What the OP is talking about seems like less common sense, that if I walk away from him, I expect him to understand that that means I want him to follow me. The latter takes some sort of skill as you are understanding something that isn't apparent. The former, in my view, is not very hard at all to see if you take things as they appear. It's like if I hold out my hand, I expect you to understand that I want you to shake it. Do I have to say that out loud just in case you didn't realise?