Female single perspective

Post Reply New Topic

I think you misread mine.



Quote the whole thought, "People in real, adult relationships fall in love. Or at the very least they form a comfortable companionship with someone who shares their worldview. They find someone who is special and who thinks they are special."

I didn't literally say she meant people fall in love first. But in reading the post, she does indeed seem to have it backwards. There is a sentiment of these relationships being ready-made. How do they form, how do these people "find" each other...she doesn't seem to be willing to partake in the very finding process itself.



The looks/money/flirting are part of the dynamic, and not limited to bad relationships. If you haven't learned this yet, I feel you're still a bit young or very naive. Or playing dumb.



There are indeed aspects of the Cinderella fairytale in the idealism of her post.



That's not what I said at all. I was commenting on the OP's post, not complaining about my life. If that's what you took away, then I don't think you even comprehended what I was saying.

Aahh, MXH you are always playing with words.

I don't fall in love seven times every day. Men I want to date are meaningful to me.

Absolutely.

There has been some improvement in that regard - I have noticed that the mods have been making attemps to keep things more gender neutral.

Sometimes they do break easily and sometimes they don't.
If something challenges someone's belief too much, especially if it is directly related to what they believe their position in life is due to, naturally it's going to be hard to break that cycle. Especially once you consider the amount of groupthink that then goes on as a result of the said individuals gathering together.

We do need more women actively participating here in a mature and respectful manner so that others will do so. But at the same time - if there are only one or two doing so it will get tiring.
And if there is no change in others attitudes as a result, then it will simply go back to the way it was.

Once you add that many here make assumptions, invalidate and fail to recognise subtle but crucial differences - it tends to evovle into the two sides or sets of posters who are the loudest with the more reasonable things being lost in the middle of it.

I'm not saying that one should not try - but I'm sure some have in the past and found it tiring to rehash the same things over and over again. People like that require things to evolve in order to stay engaged in it.
Essentially - if there is little to no benefit it's unlikely that they will participate - especially if they do not feel welcome in the first place, and that continues, even if they are being respectful and mature.

Last edited by Kjas on 21 Oct 2012, 6:59 am, edited 2 times in total.

iknow the feeling very well. ive only had feelings for 3 women in my life. obviously as you can see none happened. but even the ones i wanted to get to know better in hopes i do develop something for them gave not a chance. Then was the desperate times, still not a positive response. and i know its something that many here go through. the feeling of not being wanted for anything. to be labelled the lowest of social points. is it hard to see why many are so angry at their situation?

Of course it's understandable that they are upset - just as it's understandable that many of the women are upset.

Both "sides" on this debate have something in common - that for one reason or another, we are not wanted.

But rather than choosing to unite because of that be understanding and compassionate and support each other, people are too busy invalidating each other and arguing about the difference in the *way* that they are not wanted, as well as the reasons, simply due to a difference in goals.

It may be different in the goals or the expression, but the underlying premise of it all is the same.

I don't believe in this.

i agree, but the likelyhood of it working out is low. I think if women were more open around here and posted more of their side of things the men around here would learn a lot.

So you read the post, and you take away meaning from it that is the direct opposite from her statements? She didn't elaborate on her methods for finding people. Making assumptions doesn't make for good discussion, it just frustrates everyone else.



Whoa whoa whoa, let's not try to change our original statement here. You said: "looks/money/flirting skills are often what begin relationships". Of course they are part of the dynamic. But that's not what you originally said. You said they're often what begin relationships. Which is true, they just don't tend to be good relationships. Since the goal of people entering a relationship is for that relationship to be successful, it stands to reason that basing a relationship off of those criteria alone is pretty foolish. Unless you're a glutton for punishment.



In what ways? Wanting to enter a relationship with someone compatible? Wanting to be with someone who she really wants to be with instead of choosing someone to tolerate? This isn't fictional, it's what the best relationships are made of. Whether you want to call it a Cinderella fairytale or not, it's a quality in itself and a sign of maturity.



You had made reference in your post to desperate guys that she doesn't give a chance to, and my reference wasn't meant to be to you specifically but to that same set of guys who you seem to believe don't have a choice in whom to date. Those are the guys who are going "boohoo why won't women lower their standards for me?" instead of doing things to fix the problem. It's just an awful mindset to have.

Last edited by civrev on 21 Oct 2012, 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

It's not very often I disagree with someone entirely. It seems like most long, elaborate posts I agree with someone or at least their premise on something. I feel like if more people were like this, or recognized they were like this, discussions here would be so much more constructive.

There have been times where I've felt I've gotten the short end of the stick for being a guy. But I have so much to learn from women, and so much to gain by doing so that I would be foolish to simply invalidate everything they say. It doesn't even matter if I feel the women are correct or not, it's still insight that I could very much use.

To be honest, I don't think a female input in the love & dating sub-forum would be helpful.
I've already seen one post, with the whole "What you need to do is get into the mindset of improving yourself to meet the standards of the women" attitude.

And the worst part is this:

Which is quite honestly, the biggest load of bullshit I've ever read. Clearly, we men can't do right from wrong.

If we ask you out for a date, that's a lie, because clearly we just want sex.
If we're a workmate, or friends and we ask you for a date, that's a lie because clearly we're all narcissists who want sex.
If we're a bit run-down and you look like the type that won't humiliate us for even trying, then it's clearly a complete charade
So when can we ask for a date? And yet you still have the power to choose, but complain no-one's available.

Quite the contrary, if you re-read, it seems every possible angle to meet someone is immediately dismissed. She also presumes it's "obvious" the real the reason these guys approach her is simply for sex or a relationship for their own ego. In addition to being presumptuous, it seems like she's looking for excuses NOT to even try. How else would a relationship begin? Prince Charming magically comes along and sweeps her off her feet? That's the Cinderella aspect.

EDIT: J-Greens, who posted before I completed typing this, hit the nail on the head. He gives an excellent synopsis of this in his reply. Good observation!



They are indeed what often begin relationships, even successful ones. I'm not trying to change my original stance at all. Having money, being competent at flirting, being attractive are often what make a woman see a man as desirable. And finding a woman attractive from the get-go is indeed a major factor for a man in even wanting to pursue a relationship in the first place.

This is a SCENARIO that I would appreciate FEMALE REPLIES ONLY, please, and yes this is real and has happened:

Mid-twenties Guy, average day at work, new colleagues first proper shift.

An African guy in thirties and a youngish girl (Because I can't tell girls ages between 16 and 30, so anywhere in between, but above 18 because of the job) is starting. She's attractive, smiling and friendly. Should I ask her out?

The day continues, without an approach and by chance the girl & I end up working as a double up crew at a job, naturally we're professional during the job, but casually chatting along being friendly, we both have pets, we both like the same bands and I feel like there's a natural connection between us. Should I ask her out?

Couple of weeks later, still no approach, we're working together on a double up again, she's chatting about her ex-boyfriend (Who she never mentioned before) is trying to get back with her, despite a difficult past with him. I advise that she needs to speak to him and make up her mind what she wants. She clearly says she doesn't want anything to do with him. Should I ask her out?

Month or so later, still no approach, she's back with ex-boyfriend and complaining all the time about how he's back in his bad old habits, but it's her birthday and she's going out on town with her mates, invites me and others from work to join in. I go along, her friends get hammered. I help out throughout the night, holding bags, lending my coat, getting water etc..end of night, girl & boyfriend both worse of wear fall out over his bad habits again. Next day we're on shift together. Should I ask her out?

By the third event, me and this girl are friends and during each shift chatted enough to know family life, education, hobbies, preferences and generally enjoy working together. At what point should I have asked her out?

Because funnily enough, I never did - always regretted it - and now she's with a new guy and pregnant, except new guy number 3 is actually treating her right and thus I won't intervene with how I felt since day one.

Which angles are you referring to? She mentioned people came up to her and hit on her, and asked her out, sure. She didn't mention that that was how she focused on meeting people. She said very occasionally she'll get asked out on a date, however since we weren't there we don't really know the intentions. She also never said that those people were immediately dismissed. She's referring to guys who want sex or who are too quick to enter a relationship without getting to know her. Drunken guys hitting on her at a bar probably aren't looking to get to know her better to decide if she's relationship material.

I think we can agree there isn't much content in her post that allows us to suggest an improvement, but then again, that doesn't seem to be the point of the post anyways. The post addressed the notion that women have it easy and get to pick and choose from a variety of good men, and she made valid points in disputing that.



Again yes, they are tangible qualities a woman looks for in a man(for good reason). But your original post said that's how relationships begin. Two people can be rich, successful, good looking socialites, but if they don't share interests or worldview, their relationship isn't going to be very good. I'm guessing that perhaps you worded the statement in your original post wrong, because what you claimed then is different from what you're claiming now.

I'll give you a pass for your lack of understanding of the post, since the OP's english isn't exactly easy to understand.



She's not saying "it's obvious..", she's saying "if it's obvious..". As you pointed out, if she said what you thought she said, that would render this thread pointless. If she were adverse to being approached by men in all circumstances, I doubt she'd be lamenting that she hasn't found a compatible guy yet.

In the future, you might want to make sure something says what you think it says before you explode on someone for what ended up being a rational post, well written or not.