How “Nice guys” are made, The ultimate post

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While it may be a strawman, the stereotype is true, I have MET AS guys in real life. This does not mean all AS guys are such people, I'm saying the reason they become that way is because of their egocentric mind and the immense difficulty of their minds processing of social information. I just used that as an example of how their judgements are based on lack of information (that never reaches them) or distortions of it, because they cannot infer naturally how other people think and can "put themselves in their shoes" to truly grasp how they think.

I guess I missed that one.

Anyway, I didn't read the whole thing yet... but I probably will, as soon as my pizza gets here. There is no way that I am going to clean dishes or cook considering the state that my kitchen is in.
But I have noticed the "nice guy" is rarely if ever actually a nice guy. I'm not sure how to explain it without an example.

I had dated a man for about 4 years, but we broke it off. We were engaged and all, but things took a turn for the worse. He was my first serious relationship. Anyway, about 2 weeks later, I had met a new guy. It was too soon, but to be honest, I was very lonely so I did not care. I tried to make myself very clear by telling him that I was not seeking a relationship, but rather a "friends with benefits" type of situation. He was very eager to go along with this at first, but became more jealous as some time progressed. He was a self-professed "nice guy", yet exhibited few traits that I would consider "nice". He struck me as neurotic, socially inept, and delusional. The thing that make me (almost quite literally) run was when he said he loved me after knowing me for a short period of time, and mentioning how he envisioned us married one day. Once I broke it off, his "shadow personality" really came out, and he was everything but nice once again. I don't even know what I saw in this guy, but at least I have only had one fling and one romantic mistake in my life so far . I suppose I would take that over no romantic experience at all.


Seen more than a few examples of this on this forum. I've trained myself to try to think in "possibilities", but sometimes I find it difficult to explain or understand something without a prior related experience.

Mordy, if you have Asperger's, as your profile suggests, it is more polite to refer to us as "we" rather than "they".

I sense that you are becoming frustrated, and I therefore apologize for the dominating tone in which I wrote my original post. But I stand by my claim that your reasoning is fallacious. Maybe you'd like to respond to me?

Yes, I have been approached by men seeking advice on women. And usually it was a man who clearly exhibits traits you list as "Nice Guy Syndrome". I just don't know what to say or how to say it, even though I see the problem. What am I supposed to say? Be brutally honest? A person like this can seem so fragile to me. I can't bring myself to do it. So I usually say something cliché or neutral, such as "Don't worry. A nice guy like you will find a nice girl," or something equally unhelpful.

We're Aspies! What business do we have criticizing people for being neurotic or socially inept? Aren't we also neurotic and socially inept?

Yeah. I try my best to hide it. That, and it's uncomfortable to confront/criticise someone. I know how I get when someone does that to me.
I have no problem with pointing out things, in fact, I have been known to get on people's nerves this way. Little things, like a grammar error on your english paper, or a more efficient way of doing something on the computer, etc. I do it because I think I am being helpful. But it's different when it's something so personal. I would rather just avoid that sort of thing all together.

Yes, because the "nice guy" doesn't think he has any problems with himself, when he frequently major emotional baggage, inexperience and possibly hidden problems. So this makes him DESPERATE to be loved / have sex, fall in love, get married. Many nice guys are like little kids / children that have what seems to be "psychological problems" to most women.



Exactly, because he didn't have enough social experience, or if he was social, couldn't process his experiences and mature out of what amounts to a pre-pubescent, or still adolescent stage.



Yep typical of the "nice guy" (of which there are many combinations/subtypes). He was treating you like a POTENTIAL WIFE, he did not even qualify you, he was happy because his self esteem was most likely in the pits (he was desperate), thats usually how it is for the "nice guy" (desperate socially clueless man, with other problems besides just being desperate).



Yep, and it's all do to their minds difficulty in processing (being able to see) how the world is from other peoples perpsectives, their own tiny narrow takes precedence, and then they make really extreme judgements or statements, that sound warped or delusional, when it's really that its so immensely difficult to get the social perspectives from how the world is into their heads.

Last edited by Mordy on 03 Feb 2007, 3:30 am, edited 3 times in total.

That's interesting. By the way, I hope this doesn't set me up for "OMG TEH SEXISM OH NOES" sort of posts, but what do you call a woman who shows symptoms of "Nice Guy Syndrome" (NGS). Does it affect her differently, or not at all? Because of various social expectations I imagine this NGS would not affect a woman as much as a man.

In some ways I find this description of a theoretical syndrome to be better than a lot of stuff I've read in the DSM

Last edited by goomba on 03 Feb 2007, 3:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

Goomba...Er... if you see someone doing the wrong thing and they are an aspie... you can tell them. It's only NT's who take offense at people being blunt or straightforward .

As to the OP. You make some good points... also some very strange ones, personally when i was a child growing up (ages 5-10) i exhibited what i would consider "alpha male" traits... in other words i manipulated people to get them to do what i want. The older i got though, the more dissasatisfied i became with methods like that. I know how to play hard to get, i know how to run thought pattern processes in peoples minds. The human brain, be it NT or Aspie is a weak thing. It's a relatively simple process to affect it and make someone do as you desire them too. That don't make it right. I've made a concious choice to be straightforward about things and not play the usual games that most people do to achieve social status/relationships. This does lead me too problems but heh, i'm being true to not myself (cause the real me would like social status/relationships) but too the person i wish to be, a person who respects individuality, who does not desire to be surrounded by people who are simply an extension of what i wish them to be. Yeah i'll probably end up living alone for the rest of my life... least it'll be a worthy life. If you treat human interaction (spefically sexual ones) as a competition, whats the point? It comes down to who's smarter, simple as that. And quite frankly (and yeah i'm arrogant, so sue me) there aren't that many people smarter than i am. If i wanted to win using those methods i could (sure i'm outa practise but it wouldn't take too long to brush up my skills) but again what's the point? All i would end up with is a relationship with someone who is simply an extension of my own mind, and i'm arrogant but i'm not that arrogant, i'd rather be with someone who has a mind of their own, one i can learn from and respect and vice versa. Anything else is just masturbation.

I suppose that is usually true. The thing is, it's fairly difficult for me to determine if someone is AS or NT. I would only know if someone told me. As far as I know, I have only met one other AS person in real life.

edit-

So what are the names of the subtypes? You could have categories, and anyone that didn't exactly fit would go into "Nice Guy Syndrome - NOS" (not otherwise specified). It could be interesting to develop this idea more and format it like in the DSM.

Last edited by goomba on 03 Feb 2007, 3:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

Goomba :- I'd just tell them, i mean you're trying to help them. If they don't appreciate it then at least you'll know that you did your best.
ps:- This is bear in mind coming from someone who gets in trouble for being blunt so heh^^.

Mordy, I agree with a lot of what you mentioned in this post but I think the whole getting distracted by video games is a bit more subjective. It also seems to happen a lot that there are all kinds of guys who are more along the line of what you mentioned as having reward systems that are out of whack with the dating game but more in terms of what has them feeling good about themselves (ie. what kind of character, conduct, personality projection) and when what works is too far outside yourself you also realize that people will be able to see through an act real easily when you have to struggle to even summon the desire let alone the right words and polish.

What I hate about the dating scene is this - it takes both sexes, identities, human values, emotions, and all kinds of people who have all kinds of positives and just dehumanizes the s--- out of em. Its like when you see sexual rivalry, whether its particular guys sitting around bashing certain girls or certain girls sitting around bashing certain guys the sad thing is half the time they aren't bashing a shite person, half the time they are but regardless its like it takes your whole identity and jams it through a real narrow filter where the absolute best of you gets chopped off on either side and all that matters is the narrowest crap band of your identity where people can totally take you apart your morality, intentionality, and personal worth on all kinds of false premises. Part of my hesitance to get into the game is the fact that I do find myself a bit selective and skiddish about who I'll let deeply into my own life and identity but the other part is what I just mentioned - getting f'd with in school does have an effect on people and part of that is when you know that you don't dance well with your neck on the chopping block you tend to stay away from such situations because you know its a 1 in 10 chance that it'll turn out the way you want and 9 in 10 that you'll humiliate yourself on levels you didn't even realize were possible anymore (IMO I don't think anyone should have to put themselves in an undignified place or hold themselves out in the most vulnerable way possible just for the sheer fact of showing they have the courage to do it, even more than the risks its the fact that it emotionally twists everyone up too much on all sides and gets their expectations leaning in some rather strange ways).

Your right about nice guys having parents that failed in teaching them about human nature, it doesn't just happen from being left home alone to learn from TV though - it happens from having overly protective or religious parents just as easily. Then again as I look at it NTs pull through just fine for the most part, regardless of what situation their in, and I think its just because their genetic markers for such behaviors are in much better shape. In fact I'd be willing to wager that one of the biggest problems aspies have fitting in, even above the rest of it, is not inherently having that natural drive for hierarchy and all the other stuff that is extremely fundamental in being a successful animal.

Well, it sounds like you know the drill for the most part - just thought I'd add a few of my own thoughts .

With a woman it would not manifest that much differently I believe, there would be the same needynesss, and (sometimes) emotional instability... and just being plain naive (i.e. staying with guys who are abusive, a part of her mind still stuck in an adolescent or younger stage of development). If only the "Nice guy" and the "Nice girl" could find each other... fun times... lol.

I think the nice girl is more prone to abusiveness and failed relationships because its not hard for females (usually) to find guys, and females (generally) hate being alone. Like that old saying that "They are like monkeys, they make sure they have a firm grasp on the next guy (branch) before letting go of the other". Since they are the "choosers" many times due to the way society is setup, unless she believes the guy is higher value then she is. You here this in the "he's too good for me" comments that women make.

Since women don't (usually) have to do much to get hit on or asked out usually. They just have to stand there. This is why you frequently here comments from beautiful and even average women that they can "wait" for fate. While it's the worst advice you could give a man... because men do most of the approaching. Especially if a man is not in the social scene (i.e. bars, clubs, etc). I'm certain the "Nice girl" syndrome has problems that relate to a lot of overlapping reasons I pointed out in my first post related to childhood upbringing in the same way.

I also think that modern living is putting enormous amounts of stress and eating away peoples time, they are spending it more and more checking out of reality into TV, video games, internet, and all manner of distraction in attempt to recharge from the increasingy stress of work and the daily grind.

These people in short are the result of larger symptoms of problems within society (the social structure and institutions) and people themselves, and some of it obviously genetically.. learning disabilities, emotional problems (brains problem regulating emotions).

Some factors would be, Lack of parents, Bad parents, abuse, religious parents, bullying from her peer group, being overweight/ugly, having some mental problems (she has some kind of problem with emotional regulation possibly), and what some people call "temperament".

This thread is so full of neo-con bull it's not funny.

THIS IS NOT A PROPAGANDA FORUM!

Yes it is Earth Final Conflict. Mordy's completely 120 bazillion percent caricatures are one hundred and one per cent correct. Per cent. Men have specific mental characteristics, women have specific mental characteristics, and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri are REAL small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri... Clearly, the crux of the matter is not that we are in fact children of the sun, but not. It is that we are not, kind of, maybe, possibly, definitely, 86.56784743% the chosen ones. Brought to you by,

That being said. Everyone beat this thread with the generalization stick somethin' fierce. In fact, we've moved on to the generalization grinder, with bits and pieces going to the generalization glue factory.

yesplease - i think you're over generalizing there...