Men should start judging women's success too.

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hurtloam
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05 Dec 2013, 8:36 am

Fnord wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
I've had a think about this a bit more. I too think this is a bit too business oriented. Although it is from a business blog, but not everyone wants to be successful in business. Some people, like me, don't have a business brain. Should we really be "judging" people on their commercial success?
Most women have been doing it with men for centuries.

Do you mean like, "Does he have a job?", "How much does he make?", and "How much is he willing to spend?" ... that kind of judgment?


Can the other person earn a living? is where I think it should stop. As long as you can both work out a way to make ends meet i.e. feed, clothe and put a roof over your head and maybe afford a few little niceties then I think that is enough. I am not a materially minded person.

What I initially liked about the article was how it encouraged women to have interests. I think having good conversation is better than being rich.

We should never justify our actions with, "but everyone else is doing it, why can't I?


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Yuzu
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05 Dec 2013, 8:43 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
I've already read the article—and hopefully, most men agree with it's message.


Imagine the societal impact it would have if most men adopt this mindset.


Yeah and then you see a waitress who looks like Scarlett Johansson and that mindset is outta window.



Fnord
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05 Dec 2013, 8:47 am

My point is that women have been looking to men as providers of food, shelter, and clothing for as long as men have been looking to women as sperm repositories. Fair or not, that's how it is.

I have to wonder, though ... How many women that have become wealthy on their own have then "settled" for a man whose earning ability is dismal, to say the least? How many women that have become wealthy on their own have been happily married to the same man for 30+ years?

[opinion=mine]

It seems to me that while most men are willing to "marry down" economically if the woman is pretty enough, most women are only willing to "marry up" economically, even if the man she's marrying is bug-ugly.

[/opinion]



hurtloam
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05 Dec 2013, 8:55 am

Fnord, I can't disagree with you. I was brought up by self-sufficient parents, we lived hand to mouth and all worked on the farmstead. I know that the kind of people you describe do exist. I find them difficult to relate to. I forget how different my life is to other people's sometimes.


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Fnord
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05 Dec 2013, 9:03 am

I was raised similarly, but in a suburban / edge-of-town environment.

Those people I described seem to be everywhere - I have yet to meet a self-made woman who "married down" economically, or a self-made man who wasn't married to a "hot-looking" partner (or dating as many "hotties" as he could afford).

Disclaimer: I live in the Anaheim / Los Angeles area, where beauty and wealth seem to be more highly prized (socially) than intelligence.



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05 Dec 2013, 10:22 am

Quote:
"society, curiously enough, won’t stand for men referring to women as “losers” or “useless.”



I never thought of this particular double-standard before. So true though. :?



Janissy
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05 Dec 2013, 10:22 am

Fnord wrote:
I was raised similarly, but in a suburban / edge-of-town environment.

Those people I described seem to be everywhere - I have yet to meet a self-made woman who "married down" economically, or a self-made man who wasn't married to a "hot-looking" partner (or dating as many "hotties" as he could afford).

Disclaimer: I live in the Anaheim / Los Angeles area, where beauty and wealth seem to be more highly prized (socially) than intelligence.


I have met "power couples" which is what the article writer seems to be advocating and, like you say, the self-made woman is not marrying down economically.

The Los Angeles area does have some well known examples of self-made women who married down economically but they are celebrities. There's Britney Spears who famously married far below herself economically to Kevin Federline. That didn't work. There's also Demi Moore who married Ashton Kutcher. That didn't work out either but it lasted a lot longer than Britney's did, perhaps because the gap was smaller.

Among non-celebrities? I haven't seen it either. Just power couples.



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05 Dec 2013, 10:27 am

Venger wrote:
Quote:
"society, curiously enough, won’t stand for men referring to women as “losers” or “useless.”



I never thought of this particular double-standard before. So true though. :?


society, however, is ok with men referring to women as "dogs" which is a negative judgement about looks. It is more common for women to judge job status and men to judge physical status. This isn't a double standard so much as a different standard, which the article writer is unlikely to change. It's as though the article secretly written by a professional woman trying to sway men away from gorgeous bimbos.



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05 Dec 2013, 10:38 am

Janissy wrote:
It's as though the article secretly written by a professional woman trying to sway men away from gorgeous bimbos.


I suppose that's possible. A 50-something professional woman jealous of gorgeous young-girls in their 20s. :shrug:



The_Face_of_Boo
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05 Dec 2013, 10:41 am

Janissy wrote:
Venger wrote:
Quote:
"society, curiously enough, won’t stand for men referring to women as “losers” or “useless.”



I never thought of this particular double-standard before. So true though. :?


society, however, is ok with men referring to women as "dogs" which is a negative judgement about looks. It is more common for women to judge job status and men to judge physical status. This isn't a double standard so much as a different standard, which the article writer is unlikely to change. It's as though the article secretly written by a professional woman trying to sway men away from gorgeous bimbos.



But women also judge men's looks (he's too fat, too short too skinny...etc) waaaaayy more frequently than men's judging women' social status.

It's irrelevant who wrote it and what's his/her intentions, the article's message is valid and very strong, and mass-adopting it would greatly empower men in the dating market, making them closely equal to women and make them immune against "The Rules" games, and it would also empower successful women in the dating market.



Yuzu
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05 Dec 2013, 11:00 am

I actually thought it was interesting that a man wrote this article. As if he wants to have this mindset but doesn't want to be the only one.

Like he doesn't want to be the only one showing up at a dinner party with a plain looking woman (though successful and intelligent) while other men are with gorgeous girls.

Basically he's trying to persuade other men to choose their partners using their brains instead of genitals. Obviously it's a hard thing to do? Otherwise they wouldn't write an article about it.

Personally I see nothing wrong with choosing either kind of women if they make them happy.



MjrMajorMajor
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05 Dec 2013, 11:00 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
It's irrelevant who wrote it and what's his/her intentions, the article's message is valid and very strong, and mass-adopting it would greatly empower men in the dating market, making them closely equal to women and make them immune against "The Rules" games, and it would also empower successful women in the dating market.


It would only apply to people badly needing a self esteem boost. If someone is well-educated, well rounded, and possesses a reasonable amount of self regard they won't need to "empower" themselves. Self-improvement is awesome, but "self-empowerment" smacks too much of Stuart Smalley to me.



woodster
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05 Dec 2013, 11:14 am

This actually made me realise the benefits of being involved with someone who's so different to you. Wouldn't guys being interested in girls with completely different traits help to regulate society genetically?

What happens when successful men only date successful females? Two tier society? Wont u get people accelerating away from other people?

Although I do think it's just a stupid lesson in abstract thinking overall. There always have been successful people involved with successful people. And just the opposite too. All the abstract ideas of what people think are going on now and what they think should be happening are all happening at the same time anyway. The world is too large and too diverse for thinking like this.



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05 Dec 2013, 11:22 am

MjrMajorMajor wrote:

It would only apply to people badly needing a self esteem boost. If someone is well-educated, well rounded, and possesses a reasonable amount of self regard they won't need to "empower" themselves. Self-improvement is awesome, but "self-empowerment" smacks too much of Stuart Smalley to me.


Major you're a major-loser. lol j/k

oops I just said something taboo 8O



MjrMajorMajor
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05 Dec 2013, 11:28 am

Venger wrote:
MjrMajorMajor wrote:

It would only apply to people badly needing a self esteem boost. If someone is well-educated, well rounded, and possesses a reasonable amount of self regard they won't need to "empower" themselves. Self-improvement is awesome, but "self-empowerment" smacks too much of Stuart Smalley to me.


Major you're a major-loser. lol j/k

oops I just said something taboo 8O


Yes, but only in an economical and ironic manifestation.... :P