THIS ISN'T THE ELLIOT ROGERS FORUM!! !

Page 2 of 3 [ 46 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Ferrus91
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 25 Apr 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 311
Location: Kent, UK

29 May 2014, 7:02 am

Venger wrote:
SoftwareEngineer wrote:
Venger wrote:
Toy_Soldier wrote:
What made this more immediate was the possible connection of the killer having Aspergers, though I am not at this point sure that is true. I have heard it both stated he was diagnosed, and also stated it was just the parents suspicion.



Here's an article in which someone that knew him states that he was never diagnosed with AS. :shrug:

http://laist.com/2014/05/26/alarming_em ... hp#photo-1


I've seen several reports of that. However, the popular media has taken license from the huge number of undiagnosed, wrongly diagnosed, under diagnosed, and self-diagnosed autistics - to the media, plausibility is enough. In any case, the general impression is that he had Asperger's Syndrome. I'm sure plenty of experts are investigating and arguing the realities of any conditions and disorders he may have had.


People with AS almost never think that others are supposed to "worship" them like he obviously did. Often it's the other way around where the AS person feels slightly-inferior and thinks they have to prove themselves to others.

I guess calling him a psychopath with NPD or whatever isn't "trendy" like AS though.

A friend of mine who is a psychologist thinks that many of the symptoms he displayed - grandiosity, writing lengthy tracts about his idea, paranoia, delusional thinking - and his age are pretty much in-line with schizophrenia.



Dillogic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Nov 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,339

29 May 2014, 12:48 pm

Hopper wrote:
Or are you just really fond of that hole you're digging?


The whole point being people are making too big a deal over the ravings of a murderer. Whether those ravings are also purveyed by other people, whom aren't murderers, means absolutely nothing. Only actions matter.

I ain't going to fight the stupid fight against people just talking, and neither should anyone.



starvingartist
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,032

29 May 2014, 1:28 pm

Dillogic wrote:
Hopper wrote:
Or are you just really fond of that hole you're digging?


The whole point being people are making too big a deal over the ravings of a murderer. Whether those ravings are also purveyed by other people, whom aren't murderers, means absolutely nothing. Only actions matter.

I ain't going to fight the stupid fight against people just talking, and neither should anyone.


just because someone coming on here saying "women are sluts who won't f**k me" won't actually go out and murder a bunch of women does not mean that i (or anyone else) should have to listen to that when i come here for support.

btw, logging into an internet forum and calling all women whores is an action. thinking women are whores is not, but actively stating that they are to other people (either IRL or online) is an action.



Dillogic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Nov 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,339

29 May 2014, 1:44 pm

starvingartist wrote:
just because someone coming on here saying "women are sluts who won't f**k me" won't actually go out and murder a bunch of women does not mean that i (or anyone else) should have to listen to that when i come here for support.

btw, logging into an internet forum and calling all women whores is an action. thinking women are whores is not, but actively stating that they are to other people (either IRL or online) is an action.


I'm pretty sure the first paragraph is already illegal here. Which is something I personally don't agree with (just hit back if someone says something you don't like), but hey, I don't make these rules. Though I'm ok with it as long as it's a blanket rule against everyone and everything regarding prejudice, and not just one specific area that's focused on.

The second, that depends on your definition of action. It's analogous to words rather than an act as far as I can tell. Which doesn't mean it's not abuse, of course. Words are a form of abuse if that's the intent behind them. Again, I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to do that here.



starvingartist
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,032

29 May 2014, 2:09 pm

Dillogic wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
just because someone coming on here saying "women are sluts who won't f**k me" won't actually go out and murder a bunch of women does not mean that i (or anyone else) should have to listen to that when i come here for support.

btw, logging into an internet forum and calling all women whores is an action. thinking women are whores is not, but actively stating that they are to other people (either IRL or online) is an action.


I'm pretty sure the first paragraph is already illegal here. Which is something I personally don't agree with (just hit back if someone says something you don't like), but hey, I don't make these rules. Though I'm ok with it as long as it's a blanket rule against everyone and everything regarding prejudice, and not just one specific area that's focused on.

The second, that depends on your definition of action. It's analogous to words rather than an act as far as I can tell. Which doesn't mean it's not abuse, of course. Words are a form of abuse if that's the intent behind them. Again, I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to do that here.


if you had been following the debate that's been going on here the last few days, sexism is currently NOT moderated the same way as racism and homophobia and other forms of bigotry are. not too long ago, the moderators (at the prompting of some members) attempted to start moderating sexist comments in the same way as racist comments, and when they did they were asked by alex to stop doing that, and to give the guys that were making such comments the chance to "look stupid" and be corrected by other members rather than have the mods step in as they would with other types of bigotry and hatred being expressed on the boards. the debate that's going on is because myself and several other members have decided to request of alex that he allow the moderators to approach sexism on wrongplanet the same way they approach other types of bigotry, as it is listed in the site's ToS along with racism, etc. if other types of hatred like racism are not accepted on the site, then sexism shouldn't be either. i really don't see how this is unfair to any members.



Dillogic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Nov 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,339

29 May 2014, 3:20 pm

If there's clearly cases of that (selective moderation of prejudice), then yes, of course it needs to be fixed.



starryeyedvoyager
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Apr 2011
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 942
Location: Berlin, Germany

29 May 2014, 4:01 pm

I figured this whole affair would wind up here, and I was very hesitant to write something about it, but I've had some very lengthy discussions about the whole topic, and I do think that I try to find a middle ground.
As a disclaimer, there is no way my oppinion should be considered that I condone Rodgers' actions by any means. That said, I think the issue goes alot deeper than just claiming sexism.

As I have written elsewhere, the problem lies definitely within the equation within the head of people that think that being "a nice guy" qualifies them for being entitled an intimate relationship. Quite frankly, you are entitled to squat. The issue is that his hatred was focused towards "high-tier" women that usually do not date his type. That is the crux of the matter: He was angry that women did not fancy him and called them shallow, yet at the same time, the only women he considered a suitable mate were only the most attractive, flashy, "trophy" girls. If your own standards are very high in this regard, you can't blame others for having their own. And if he thinks that the "jerks" where not entitled to their attention, that stems from the same twisted perception of self-entitlement he displayed.

But, and this is a huge BUT, while in no way acceptable, this whole incident brings up the topic of sexism and gender roles, and it a quite important discussion indeed. Because, in my oppinion, the scales are on the verge of tipping in the favor of women. It is an absolute fallacy to think that men get any less discriminated than women when it comes to their sex, and there is plenty of proof for that. Just consider how domestic violence is perceived: men hitting women is unacceptable, but more and more men become vitcim of domestic violence themselves, and their cries go unheaded because society deams a woman who phyiscally stands up to a man as strong, and the man as weak - and he is also weak if he hits back. It is a battle men cannot win, and this physical aspect is, I am afraid, one of the biggest parts of the picture.
It is a common thing to hear that women claim they get sexually objectified by shallow men, to conform certain standards of beauty, especially when it comes to being chubby. The same principal applies for short men, and here, we find that it is socially accepted that a woman refuses a man who is shorter than her - but you can lose weight, and you cannot gain height (and before we go there, I am 6'3, so this is certainly none of my issues). This is just an example, and the tip of the iceberg. Women have, in general, the exact same high standards as men, but it is much more accepted for them to display them. Even more than that, I am under the impression that women's standards become unrealistic in a much broader fashion than that of men, and are unrealistic in their own perception. What I mean by that is that many women describe their ideal partner of being very emotional and caring, having a good sense of humour and being intelligent, but I do not think that this is any more true as if a man said this. Looks matter for women almost the same as for men. Almost in the way that it is, for men, much easier to accomodate this expectation, simply because cosmetics isn't that much of an issue as it is with women.
Where I am getting at is the fact that alot of men I know from my generation and below, are becoming more and more alienated from women simply because their "old fashioned" masculine attributes do not seem to do much anymore, they are considered sexist. I, for example, have noticed that I have become more and more insecure about myself when it comes finding a partner, simply because I feel I have nothing to offer to a woman - and alot of my guy friends feel the same. We simply do not know anymore what is expected from a "modern" man, because as it seems, he has to have all the same qualities of an "old fashioned" guy, being manly, dominant and taking control, but at the same time be the complete opposite. Again, by no means is this an excuse for such a tragedy to happen, but I do like to make a point that it is an illusion that men (in western society, that is) have it any less difficulty to identify themselves with their gender role than women do - but I feel that society's perception and attitude is that they do. As a small footnote, consider affirmative action, something we like doing here in Germany when it comes to jobs. I know a couple of guys who didn't get a job because they took a less qualified woman instead of them, and I have noticed if they complained about it, women tended to scold them for being sexist. When I asked them, they said that they couldn't care less if the person who got the job was a woman, a man, black, white, muslim, christian or whatnot, they were just outraged that they didn't get it even though they were alot more qualified. Now, you could always argue that women might lose a year from pregnancy at some point, but here is some news: I lost about a year from serving, like most other men did. If you want total equality, it can only be equaliy by chances, not by results.



BigK
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 400

29 May 2014, 5:29 pm

starvingartist wrote:
if you had been following the debate that's been going on here the last few days, sexism is currently NOT moderated the same way as racism and homophobia and other forms of bigotry are. not too long ago, the moderators (at the prompting of some members) attempted to start moderating sexist comments in the same way as racist comments, and when they did they were asked by alex to stop doing that, and to give the guys that were making such comments the chance to "look stupid" and be corrected by other members rather than have the mods step in as they would with other types of bigotry and hatred being expressed on the boards. the debate that's going on is because myself and several other members have decided to request of alex that he allow the moderators to approach sexism on wrongplanet the same way they approach other types of bigotry, as it is listed in the site's ToS along with racism, etc. if other types of hatred like racism are not accepted on the site, then sexism shouldn't be either. i really don't see how this is unfair to any members.


The last time I was here racism was allowed on the site. Different rules were applied to different boards.

Maybe the site needs a "men's forum' where the angry men can rant. Maybe then "Love and dating" could be spared some of this stuff.

If the site is too politically correct it will become too sterile and no one will learn anything.


_________________
"It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out of your door," he used to say. "You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to.

"How can it not know what it is?"


SoftwareEngineer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Apr 2014
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 578
Location: Tonopah, AZ, USA

29 May 2014, 5:48 pm

BigK wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
if you had been following the debate that's been going on here the last few days, sexism is currently NOT moderated the same way as racism and homophobia and other forms of bigotry are. not too long ago, the moderators (at the prompting of some members) attempted to start moderating sexist comments in the same way as racist comments, and when they did they were asked by alex to stop doing that, and to give the guys that were making such comments the chance to "look stupid" and be corrected by other members rather than have the mods step in as they would with other types of bigotry and hatred being expressed on the boards. the debate that's going on is because myself and several other members have decided to request of alex that he allow the moderators to approach sexism on wrongplanet the same way they approach other types of bigotry, as it is listed in the site's ToS along with racism, etc. if other types of hatred like racism are not accepted on the site, then sexism shouldn't be either. i really don't see how this is unfair to any members.


The last time I was here racism was allowed on the site. Different rules were applied to different boards.

Maybe the site needs a "men's forum' where the angry men can rant. Maybe then "Love and dating" could be spared some of this stuff.

If the site is too politically correct it will become too sterile and no one will learn anything.


You are a sage of wisdom. However, if you provide access based on gender, then you open up a can of worms (for those in the UK, "sticky wicket") regarding all of the permutations of birth gender, physical gender, gender identity, etc. That, is an yet unaddressed issue of increased moderation of L&D.



BigK
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 400

29 May 2014, 5:58 pm

SoftwareEngineer wrote:
You are a sage of wisdom. However, if you provide access based on gender, then you open up a can of worms (for those in the UK, "sticky wicket") regarding all of the permutations of birth gender, physical gender, gender identity, etc. That, is an yet unaddressed issue of increased moderation of L&D.


You don't have to keep anyone out.. I don't know if men are allowed to post in the Women's Discussion forum.

OK, don't call it 'Men's Forum'. Call it "Gender Wars Forum". :twisted:

Then "Love and Dating" can just be about love & dating. ;)


_________________
"It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out of your door," he used to say. "You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to.

"How can it not know what it is?"


SoftwareEngineer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Apr 2014
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 578
Location: Tonopah, AZ, USA

29 May 2014, 6:10 pm

BigK wrote:
SoftwareEngineer wrote:
You are a sage of wisdom. However, if you provide access based on gender, then you open up a can of worms (for those in the UK, "sticky wicket") regarding all of the permutations of birth gender, physical gender, gender identity, etc. That, is an yet unaddressed issue of increased moderation of L&D.


You don't have to keep anyone out.. I don't know if men are allowed to post in the Women's Discussion forum.

OK, don't call it 'Men's Forum'. Call it "Gender Wars Forum". :twisted:

Then "Love and Dating" can just be about love & dating. ;)


For the same reason L&D is the Elliot Rodgers forum, it would continue to be the gender war forum. It's been that way since I first started watching it over two years ago and, from looking at archival posts, it's been that way for years.

I'm sending you a PM.



Lukario
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Aug 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 734
Location: Norway

01 Jun 2014, 11:34 am

I feel bad that the kid had to think like that, I myself took it slow until my first passionate kiss a few months ago, it could have led to sex but my ex said no and I could have taken the chance before that but I didn't feel like it at the time (I was 19 and I'm 21 now) and It's not necessary to buy a slut either, just ask a friend if you're so desperate, I've done it myself.



tarantella64
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2011
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,850

01 Jun 2014, 1:59 pm

Lukario wrote:
I feel bad that the kid had to think like that, I myself took it slow until my first passionate kiss a few months ago, it could have led to sex but my ex said no and I could have taken the chance before that but I didn't feel like it at the time (I was 19 and I'm 21 now) and It's not necessary to buy a slut either, just ask a friend if you're so desperate, I've done it myself.


To "buy a slut"?

Oh boy.

That's a hell of a dismissive way to refer to someone who's kind enough to have sex with you for money. And who -- if the studies are to be believed -- does this either because she's desperate and has history of being abused, or because she's a generally sex-positive person and says "sure, why not".

I used to know a woman who hired herself out at about $500/night. Doctoral candidate in neuroscience -- their funding's terrible, and she was wise enough not to collect debt. She's a research scientist now. She blogged pseudonymously about being an escort, was eventually outed, and has done quite well by it ever since, mostly because she writes well, is smart, and is smart enough not to let herself be slut-shamed.

(Here you go, about slut-shaming: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slut-shaming)

Here she is on the topic of sluttiness:

http://sexonomics-uk.blogspot.com/2011/ ... twalk.html

Enjoy.



MindBlind
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 May 2009
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,341

01 Jun 2014, 2:15 pm

hale_bopp wrote:
MindBlind wrote:
What the hell?

I understand that some people want to discuss how perhaps, they see parallels with his sentiments and their own experiences, but this is hardly a dating forum anymore. Its getting completely derailed by a political campaign rather than people just sharing their dating experiences.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be feminist discussion on this forum. I'm saying that there shouldn't only be feminist discussion. Plus, some of these threads really belong in he politics forum instead or perhaps the women's forum.


You can't choose what people post.
Here, have your toys back.


Um, I don't believe I ever said that I could choose what people post. I just think some of the discussion goes beyong just talking about his desire for sex. It goes into stuff about activism, patriarchy (y'know, cuz of the whole #yesallwomen hashtag slactivism?) and I don't think its really all that relevant to this particular forum. Yes, I have been exaggerating, but I'm not totaly wrong.

But okay - I just posted an irrelevant thread, too. Seeing as you're cool with it.



Lukario
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Aug 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 734
Location: Norway

02 Jun 2014, 5:34 am

tarantella64 wrote:
Lukario wrote:
I feel bad that the kid had to think like that, I myself took it slow until my first passionate kiss a few months ago, it could have led to sex but my ex said no and I could have taken the chance before that but I didn't feel like it at the time (I was 19 and I'm 21 now) and It's not necessary to buy a slut either, just ask a friend if you're so desperate, I've done it myself.


To "buy a slut"?

Oh boy.

That's a hell of a dismissive way to refer to someone who's kind enough to have sex with you for money. And who -- if the studies are to be believed -- does this either because she's desperate and has history of being abused, or because she's a generally sex-positive person and says "sure, why not".

I used to know a woman who hired herself out at about $500/night. Doctoral candidate in neuroscience -- their funding's terrible, and she was wise enough not to collect debt. She's a research scientist now. She blogged pseudonymously about being an escort, was eventually outed, and has done quite well by it ever since, mostly because she writes well, is smart, and is smart enough not to let herself be slut-shamed.

(Here you go, about slut-shaming: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slut-shaming)

Here she is on the topic of sluttiness:

http://sexonomics-uk.blogspot.com/2011/ ... twalk.html

Enjoy.


I know that some of them have to do it for living but as a spare time thing It's smart to take money for it, dumb if you don't.



The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 41
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 32,872
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

02 Jun 2014, 6:32 am

Ever thought of doing this business, tarantella?

I wonder how a straight guy can become an escort :lol:.