What makes someone unattractive?

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I disagree that "worthlessness" is the correct term. While it's true one could be excluded from a group or social circle because those in the group or social circle see no worth in that person, most of us are not stuck on an island with one group of people. But I do believe that those here on Wrongplanet often suffer from loneliness due to their own social shortcomings. It does not mean other don't or wouldn't value them, but the process of forging the relationship might be difficult.

My statement was perhaps too emotionally charged. The point I wanted to make is it's much less emotionally challenging to be critical of others than it is to be critical of yourself.

You almost frame it as though autistic people are worthless.

I understand you had some beef with Outrider in the past. I honestly think the guy can be right on some things, finding a girl requires almost a support network I think. You need to know how to act around people and have social skills friends are a great way to get that. It also increases your chance of meeting girls who will often pop into that circle. When you don't have any of those things it is hard to get anywhere. And that is what I believe he sometimes faces. When he talks about talking to people randomly whilst breaching norms is one of the few things someone can do.

What? Not at all. It was self-reflection mainly. All I meant was that it's easier as a lonely person to blame others for your position, because self-criticism can be really hard to cope with. I'm sorry if I insulted anybody.

Just read this again.

"Once you realize that loneliness is a result of your own worthlessness, you fall into deep depression and since you're all alone nobody is going to even care, making depression that much more powerful."

It kind of implies that autistic people might have to realize that their failure to get a girl is because they are worthless which they don't want to see.

I was just expressing my personal experience. I've said in the last two posts that it was emotionally-charged, self-reflective expression. I'm not trying to cast others in a negative light, just extrapolate through my own feelings why some people might resort to making sweeping generalizations against the opposite gender.

Just to clear things:

I don't agree that external forces can't have a impact in our lives, and I know that dating/love is complicated. I even commented here previously that I feel I'll be always alone... and look, I'm a woman! There is many man struggling to find love and there is many woman struggling to find love as well.

Some commentaries sounds like "people" means man, and woman aren't individuals, but some another category of mean things that the real humans, aka man, need to work hard to achieve. We are people too and many of us have struggles just like you. It has much more to do into fitting in a pattern of attractiveness and success than being from a certain gender, and both patterns are hard to fit in and are excluding.

I don't feel as though their is an easy answer to this. Autistic people have to not harbor their resentment onto others. But we can't treat those who struggle as though it is entirely their fault either. If we do that we avoid giving them the support we need.

Neurotypicals have had their part to play in this as well, to say the least.

I think you summed it up pretty well. Sometimes people on this forum, fall into black and white thinking and some silly assumptions and you have described quite well why that is wrong.

I feel this forum would benefit quite a bit if more people were like you. Such as Realize that women often have it tough and not fall into thinking traps.

In what way can NT's be blamed if somebody happens to not have a romantic life?

Its complicated.

Some Neurotypicals have often bullied autistic people because they are different.

I feel sometimes they shouldn't throw around words like social ret*d as much as we do and see them as creepy. When all they need to do is learn how to behave normally, its puts them a box and prevents them from climbing out.

I think that sometimes neurotypicals could make a small effort to include autistic people in their conversations, it allows them to feel more relaxed around people as well as gradually learn how to communicate. Sometimes neurotypicals just don't want to have anything to do with us even if what they have to do is so small.

And finally neurotypical people sometimes need to realize that different does not translate to threatening.

I think you're putting way too much responsibility at the feet of NT's. In the same way that lonely men shouldn't be pointing the finger at women, lonely aspies shouldn't be pointing the finger at NT's. It is not their fault if we happen to be forever alone.

Maybe. I think I am showing a very collectivist attitude their so I will try to stop.

I don't think that neurotypicals who embody what I just said necessarily have it as their fault that things are that way.

It is in the human physce to scared of difference, we can't blame them for simply thinking that. It is just a perception that we as a society have got to change.

I think that people should include aspies in their conversation to a minimal level. It is okay to set boundaries you don't have to be friends with these people. But for some individuals on the spectrum it is one of the few chances they got. The best thing we can do is allow them to climb. If not than some of these people will be left behind whilst many neurotypicals get married, have kids etc.

What basically Sabreclaw is saying that lonely people ended up lonely because there's something fundamentally wrong with them, it can be anything (too ugly, too poor, too uneducated, too aspie...etc) and not because of others.

I kinda agree with this.

At times I feel like there must be something fundamentally wrong with me, but I have friends and family who tell me that's not true. Now, I know that you are analytical like me Boo and you will come back with an argument for that. You'll say that they are biased and feel that they have to say that out of politeness. Well, that's true to a certain extent.

But our friends and family also know us well enough to know our good points too. The people we meet and try to date never get to know us well enough to know our good points. They only see a shallow surface representation of who we are.

So yeah, there's some things about us that may bit a bit difficult to deal with for a large number of people, but don't ever anyone feel that you are completely flawed. We all have good points too.

Just take a look at the kind of person that can end up in a relationship. The one thing they all have in common is... well, nothing. People of all sorts of personalities and body shapes/sizes end up in relationships, or at the very least are sexually active. It's rare to wind up forever alone, and it means that something isn't quite working on your end. I refer to this something as the "x-factor", since it's nothing I can point to.

If I could go back and rephrase my first post I would. Ignore it; it just relates to my feelings about myself. I don't mean to suggest all lonely people are worthless, just me in particular.