Why are women grossed out by the male body?

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Closet Genious
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10 Aug 2017, 4:01 am

rdos wrote:
Jamesy wrote:
I was out with friends last Saturday and there was a conversation amongst some of my male friends where they were talking about a guy exposing his 'johnson' at a party. There was this girl who was with us at the table who nearly threw up when hearing about the story and was like "eww gross". If there was a story about a girl exposing her breasts guys would droll and say "please tell me more"


Part of my study concluded that groups of women that had experienced flashing gave LOWER disgust rates. Why is that? It's anybody's guess, but perhaps if one woman enjoyed it, then her friends would be less likely to find it disgusting. Which, again, comes back to cultural attitudes. Women are supposed to be grossed out by this, but when somebody isn't, then they loosen up on their "cultural programming".

Jamesy wrote:
So the question is why do a lot of women find male body parts gross yet guys and (and women as well) find female body parts a turn on?????


Because of culture.

Besides, there are women that go to male strip shows, which also puts into question that women in general only like private sex.


I find it laughable how you are so skeptical about evolutionary biology and psychology as an explanation, yet you buy into the cultural programming arguement. There's literally no evidence at all, to support that culture has shaped gender and reproductive dynamics.



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10 Aug 2017, 4:53 am

Closet Genious wrote:
I find it laughable how you are so skeptical about evolutionary biology and psychology as an explanation, yet you buy into the cultural programming arguement. There's literally no evidence at all, to support that culture has shaped gender and reproductive dynamics.


There is evidence all over that culture has a role in gender and reproduction dynamics.

I do support evolutionary biology, but not the view that all humans have a single evolutionary path. That is the view that will lead nowhere. In order to provide useful insights into human evolution, neurodiversity must be considered and cannot be disregarded as a "flaw". Psychology also needs to take neurodiversity seriously and not assume that all humans develop or function the same way. Once this happens, our understanding of human evolution and our psychology will boom.



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10 Aug 2017, 5:25 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Chronos wrote:
Jamesy wrote:
I was out with friends last Saturday and there was a conversation amongst some of my male friends where they were talking about a guy exposing his 'johnson' at a party. There was this girl who was with us at the table who nearly threw up when hearing about the story and was like "eww gross". If there was a story about a girl exposing her breasts guys would droll and say "please tell me more"


So the question is why do a lot of women find male body parts gross yet guys and (and women as well) find female body parts a turn on?????

I guess you guys might reference the quote from Seinfeld in regards to this subject :roll:


If you want the evolutionary explanation, in humans, evolution is "male driven" in that for most of pre-human and human evolution, males chose their mates. Your ancestral father was a guy who liked lady bits and in his pursuit of them, passed on the genes that liked them.

Females, on the other hand, didn't have nearly as much of a say as who they pursued and why so there was less selective pressure for women to develop an affinity for gentlemen bits.




Your whole post is frankly erroneous, and it's totally the other way around, from evolutionary standpoint.


I could be wrong but my understanding is the generally accepted theory is that evolution is male driven, and this idea is substantiated genetically.

Human Evolutionary Genetics, Second Edition Page 240

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
It's the female human which is way more selective, and humans evolved on this basis; what you are talking about 'female had no say' is about the arranged marriages, which happened over a short period of human history in the ancient 'civilized' world; the whole human's known history is nothing but a very brief glimpse of the humankind existence, too short to even have any significant evolutionary impact.
If you look at the current primitive tribes, women have their say in mate selection, and even in the cultures where arranged marriage still exist, the daughter's mother has a strong say in it too, so indirectly....it's still based on female preferences.


At current time I would agree that women have far more mate selection power than in the past. Human cultural variations allow for this. However throughout the mammalian kingdom, with few exceptions, and across human cultures and throughout known human history, it's the males that more actively seek out and mates, and take an active, rather than passive role, and even if that ceases to exist in modern times, it does not change the fact that the state of modern humans is a direct consequence of it.

Even in situations where a female can say yes or no to a mate, the female has less influence on evolutionary paths for the mere fact that she can't reproduce as much as a male. She's limited to one pregnancy every 9 or 10 months maximum, whereas a male can impregnate as many females as he can have sex with.



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If you want the colloquial reason that most women would give as a result of them...because they look weird and are gross and she doesn't want it in her, she can see one any time she wants if she wants to.

Women are more attracted by things like his chest/abs/arms. This makes sense evolutionary because while she might not have pursued men with nice bits, she might have gravitated towards men who appeared physically fit, and men who were physically fit probably had more reproductive success. So I disagree that women are grossed out by the male body. They are just grossed out by unsolicited exposure to male genitalia.


The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Umm....no, I can assure you that many women, when properly aroused, love the look and the feel of their man's penis; but of course not in a 'standalone mode', but it's all part of the package (chest/abs/arms).

What was gross about in the OP's post was the pervert act; flashing a penis in public unsolicited would certainly be associated with sexual offense and rape; and I imagine that association is very gross to most sane women.


Exactly, context. But the OP was asking why women don't find male genitalia attractive in the same context that men might find female genitalia attractive. Women need a reason, men need a place. Male genitalia, on it's own doesn't often carry aesthetic value to women. Nor is a woman likely to become aroused at an unsolicited display of it. Not to mention the fact that most women find such unsolicited visual intrusions disrespectful.

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/0 ... 41609.html

Frankly speaking, I think most men find the boobs/tummy/tight/ass more pleasing to the eyes than a close-up vagina too.


You are probably right. Among non-human primates female genitalia often becomes very prominent during times of estrus and becomes a point of attraction for males. However this display is not an attribute of the modern human female. Human females, however, have permanent full breasts, and more prominent hip to waist ratios compared to other primates, and these traits likely now drive mate selection in humans, thankfully.



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10 Aug 2017, 5:37 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Usually, if a guy flashes his genitals, he's trying to be aggressive. This sort of thing is not borne out of good feeling.


There's an Island called North Sentinel Island, in the Indian Ocean. It hosts a tribe of "uncontacted" people who have historically been hostile to outsiders, and continue to be so, so not much is known about them except that they are related to the inhabitants of the Andaman Islands, but have been isolated long enough that their language is unintelligible to other Andaman Islanders. The extent of the non-hostile contact consisted of the gifting of food and other items at a distance, which the Islanders accepted, but warily so. After gathering what they wanted, as researchers watched from a distance, one of the male Islanders turned to the researchers and made what the researchers interpreted as a hostile gesture, indicating his desire that they leave. That gesture was that he grabbed his penis and pointed it at them.



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10 Aug 2017, 5:52 am

Chronos wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Usually, if a guy flashes his genitals, he's trying to be aggressive. This sort of thing is not borne out of good feeling.


There's an Island called North Sentinel Island, in the Indian Ocean. It hosts a tribe of "uncontacted" people who have historically been hostile to outsiders, and continue to be so, so not much is known about them except that they are related to the inhabitants of the Andaman Islands, but have been isolated long enough that their language is unintelligible to other Andaman Islanders. The extent of the non-hostile contact consisted of the gifting of food and other items at a distance, which the Islanders accepted, but warily so. After gathering what they wanted, as researchers watched from a distance, one of the male Islanders turned to the researchers and made what the researchers interpreted as a hostile gesture, indicating his desire that they leave. That gesture was that he grabbed his penis and pointed it at them.


That's pretty funny.



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10 Aug 2017, 5:56 am

Chronos wrote:
Exactly, context. But the OP was asking why women don't find male genitalia attractive in the same context that men might find female genitalia attractive. Women need a reason, men need a place. Male genitalia, on it's own doesn't often carry aesthetic value to women. Nor is a woman likely to become aroused at an unsolicited display of it. Not to mention the fact that most women find such unsolicited visual intrusions disrespectful.


Well, that is another common misunderstanding of flashing prevalent in our culture. The objective of flashing is not to arouse a female(s), or to engage in sexual intercourse with willing spectators. Flashing is all about getting interest reactions from females. And that is the way it has to be when it is part of an evolutionary "baggage" related to female choice.



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10 Aug 2017, 6:03 am

Quote:
I could be wrong but my understanding is the generally accepted theory is that evolution is male driven, and this idea is substantiated genetically.

Human Evolutionary Genetics, Second Edition Page 240


Umm...this is about cell divisions and mutation rate in Y Chromosome vs X Chromosome; how is that even related?|

But in your wording, 'male driven' means that males chose their mates.



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10 Aug 2017, 6:11 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Quote:
I could be wrong but my understanding is the generally accepted theory is that evolution is male driven, and this idea is substantiated genetically.

Human Evolutionary Genetics, Second Edition Page 240


Umm...this is about cell divisions and mutation rate in Y Chromosome vs X Chromosome; how is that even related?|

But in your wording, 'male driven' means that males chose their mates.


I think male driven mate choice, at least in humans, has been heavily debunked. Which is not to say that males try to circumvent female choice in various ways like with rape and threats of violence, but then that is not free choice anymore.



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10 Aug 2017, 9:24 am

Closet Genious wrote:
rdos wrote:
Jamesy wrote:
I was out with friends last Saturday and there was a conversation amongst some of my male friends where they were talking about a guy exposing his 'johnson' at a party. There was this girl who was with us at the table who nearly threw up when hearing about the story and was like "eww gross". If there was a story about a girl exposing her breasts guys would droll and say "please tell me more"


Part of my study concluded that groups of women that had experienced flashing gave LOWER disgust rates. Why is that? It's anybody's guess, but perhaps if one woman enjoyed it, then her friends would be less likely to find it disgusting. Which, again, comes back to cultural attitudes. Women are supposed to be grossed out by this, but when somebody isn't, then they loosen up on their "cultural programming".

Jamesy wrote:
So the question is why do a lot of women find male body parts gross yet guys and (and women as well) find female body parts a turn on?????


Because of culture.

Besides, there are women that go to male strip shows, which also puts into question that women in general only like private sex.


I find it laughable how you are so skeptical about evolutionary biology and psychology as an explanation, yet you buy into the cultural programming arguement. There's literally no evidence at all, to support that culture has shaped gender and reproductive dynamics.

Yeah, I'm gonna have to disagree on that one. Look what's happening in America, and Europe before that with gay marriage. Back in the 90's it wasn't even seriously up for discussion. Two decades later it's the law of the land.

Or how about those returning WWII GI's? Massive population explosion. The boomers had barely come of age when the pill became ubiquitous and abortion was encouraged. Now you not only have a reversal in the birth rate, you have women not even STARTING to have kids until their 30's.

The culture is drastically different than it was a mere DECADE ago. If culture hasn't affected gender and reproduction, it most certainly has affected our openness with it. You have to at least consider there might be some interaction between culture and shifting sexual norms.



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10 Aug 2017, 10:20 am

AngelRho wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
rdos wrote:
Jamesy wrote:
I was out with friends last Saturday and there was a conversation amongst some of my male friends where they were talking about a guy exposing his 'johnson' at a party. There was this girl who was with us at the table who nearly threw up when hearing about the story and was like "eww gross". If there was a story about a girl exposing her breasts guys would droll and say "please tell me more"


Part of my study concluded that groups of women that had experienced flashing gave LOWER disgust rates. Why is that? It's anybody's guess, but perhaps if one woman enjoyed it, then her friends would be less likely to find it disgusting. Which, again, comes back to cultural attitudes. Women are supposed to be grossed out by this, but when somebody isn't, then they loosen up on their "cultural programming".

Jamesy wrote:
So the question is why do a lot of women find male body parts gross yet guys and (and women as well) find female body parts a turn on?????


Because of culture.

Besides, there are women that go to male strip shows, which also puts into question that women in general only like private sex.


I find it laughable how you are so skeptical about evolutionary biology and psychology as an explanation, yet you buy into the cultural programming arguement. There's literally no evidence at all, to support that culture has shaped gender and reproductive dynamics.

Yeah, I'm gonna have to disagree on that one. Look what's happening in America, and Europe before that with gay marriage. Back in the 90's it wasn't even seriously up for discussion. Two decades later it's the law of the land.

Or how about those returning WWII GI's? Massive population explosion. The boomers had barely come of age when the pill became ubiquitous and abortion was encouraged. Now you not only have a reversal in the birth rate, you have women not even STARTING to have kids until their 30's.

The culture is drastically different than it was a mere DECADE ago. If culture hasn't affected gender and reproduction, it most certainly has affected our openness with it. You have to at least consider there might be some interaction between culture and shifting sexual norms.


I obviously won't deny this, but I see it differently. I see it as our biological nature responding or reacting to the surrounding culture.

Something I read recently that thought was very interesting: In the countries that have pushed women's rights the most(countries like denmark and sweden), the difference in choices men and women make, becomes LARGER.
So what we see there is that if we flatten out the "cultural programming", and give men and women equal rights and freedom of choice, women will make choices that are more stereotypically female, and men will be more stereotypical aswell. Imo this shows that our biology is what influences us the most.



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10 Aug 2017, 11:24 am

Closet Genious wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
rdos wrote:
Jamesy wrote:
I was out with friends last Saturday and there was a conversation amongst some of my male friends where they were talking about a guy exposing his 'johnson' at a party. There was this girl who was with us at the table who nearly threw up when hearing about the story and was like "eww gross". If there was a story about a girl exposing her breasts guys would droll and say "please tell me more"


Part of my study concluded that groups of women that had experienced flashing gave LOWER disgust rates. Why is that? It's anybody's guess, but perhaps if one woman enjoyed it, then her friends would be less likely to find it disgusting. Which, again, comes back to cultural attitudes. Women are supposed to be grossed out by this, but when somebody isn't, then they loosen up on their "cultural programming".

Jamesy wrote:
So the question is why do a lot of women find male body parts gross yet guys and (and women as well) find female body parts a turn on?????


Because of culture.

Besides, there are women that go to male strip shows, which also puts into question that women in general only like private sex.


I find it laughable how you are so skeptical about evolutionary biology and psychology as an explanation, yet you buy into the cultural programming arguement. There's literally no evidence at all, to support that culture has shaped gender and reproductive dynamics.

Yeah, I'm gonna have to disagree on that one. Look what's happening in America, and Europe before that with gay marriage. Back in the 90's it wasn't even seriously up for discussion. Two decades later it's the law of the land.

Or how about those returning WWII GI's? Massive population explosion. The boomers had barely come of age when the pill became ubiquitous and abortion was encouraged. Now you not only have a reversal in the birth rate, you have women not even STARTING to have kids until their 30's.

The culture is drastically different than it was a mere DECADE ago. If culture hasn't affected gender and reproduction, it most certainly has affected our openness with it. You have to at least consider there might be some interaction between culture and shifting sexual norms.


I obviously won't deny this, but I see it differently. I see it as our biological nature responding or reacting to the surrounding culture.

Something I read recently that thought was very interesting: In the countries that have pushed women's rights the most(countries like denmark and sweden), the difference in choices men and women make, becomes LARGER.
So what we see there is that if we flatten out the "cultural programming", and give men and women equal rights and freedom of choice, women will make choices that are more stereotypically female, and men will be more stereotypical aswell. Imo this shows that our biology is what influences us the most.

Biology is too inconsistent. If you follow that to its logical conclusion, you would have to say homosexuality is a disability or a mental illness. Maybe it is, maybe it's not. But it has followed a path of criminality, to mental illness, to...well, not QUITE full acceptance and tolerance, but defo a much easier and safer existence, as opposed to burning at the stake. From people snickering behind someone's back to "oh, THAT guy. Yeah, he's cool...he just doesn't like girls is all."

Abortion, same thing. You'd think the maternal instinct would kick in and all women would be freaking out over the suggestion she could legally kill her baby if she didn't want it. But, no, you have too many women screaming that it's HER body and she can kill a baby if she wants to. I won't deny that most guys are straight and most women aren't murderers. But cultural shifts have allowed coming out and infanticide when they'd have been unthinkable in the previous generation. Biology is only a small part of it (I do believe a genetic predisposition towards homosexuality is plausible, for example). Culture has been more responsible for bringing these and other significant behaviors out, even among those who might not otherwise be participants had there not been a cultural/environment impetus for it.



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10 Aug 2017, 12:55 pm

AngelRho wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
rdos wrote:
Jamesy wrote:
I was out with friends last Saturday and there was a conversation amongst some of my male friends where they were talking about a guy exposing his 'johnson' at a party. There was this girl who was with us at the table who nearly threw up when hearing about the story and was like "eww gross". If there was a story about a girl exposing her breasts guys would droll and say "please tell me more"


Part of my study concluded that groups of women that had experienced flashing gave LOWER disgust rates. Why is that? It's anybody's guess, but perhaps if one woman enjoyed it, then her friends would be less likely to find it disgusting. Which, again, comes back to cultural attitudes. Women are supposed to be grossed out by this, but when somebody isn't, then they loosen up on their "cultural programming".

Jamesy wrote:
So the question is why do a lot of women find male body parts gross yet guys and (and women as well) find female body parts a turn on?????


Because of culture.

Besides, there are women that go to male strip shows, which also puts into question that women in general only like private sex.


I find it laughable how you are so skeptical about evolutionary biology and psychology as an explanation, yet you buy into the cultural programming arguement. There's literally no evidence at all, to support that culture has shaped gender and reproductive dynamics.

Yeah, I'm gonna have to disagree on that one. Look what's happening in America, and Europe before that with gay marriage. Back in the 90's it wasn't even seriously up for discussion. Two decades later it's the law of the land.

Or how about those returning WWII GI's? Massive population explosion. The boomers had barely come of age when the pill became ubiquitous and abortion was encouraged. Now you not only have a reversal in the birth rate, you have women not even STARTING to have kids until their 30's.

The culture is drastically different than it was a mere DECADE ago. If culture hasn't affected gender and reproduction, it most certainly has affected our openness with it. You have to at least consider there might be some interaction between culture and shifting sexual norms.


I obviously won't deny this, but I see it differently. I see it as our biological nature responding or reacting to the surrounding culture.

Something I read recently that thought was very interesting: In the countries that have pushed women's rights the most(countries like denmark and sweden), the difference in choices men and women make, becomes LARGER.
So what we see there is that if we flatten out the "cultural programming", and give men and women equal rights and freedom of choice, women will make choices that are more stereotypically female, and men will be more stereotypical aswell. Imo this shows that our biology is what influences us the most.

Biology is too inconsistent. If you follow that to its logical conclusion, you would have to say homosexuality is a disability or a mental illness. Maybe it is, maybe it's not. But it has followed a path of criminality, to mental illness, to...well, not QUITE full acceptance and tolerance, but defo a much easier and safer existence, as opposed to burning at the stake. From people snickering behind someone's back to "oh, THAT guy. Yeah, he's cool...he just doesn't like girls is all."

Abortion, same thing. You'd think the maternal instinct would kick in and all women would be freaking out over the suggestion she could legally kill her baby if she didn't want it. But, no, you have too many women screaming that it's HER body and she can kill a baby if she wants to. I won't deny that most guys are straight and most women aren't murderers. But cultural shifts have allowed coming out and infanticide when they'd have been unthinkable in the previous generation. Biology is only a small part of it (I do believe a genetic predisposition towards homosexuality is plausible, for example). Culture has been more responsible for bringing these and other significant behaviors out, even among those who might not otherwise be participants had there not been a cultural/environment impetus for it.


A certain percentage of most animal species are homosexual, so that would be biological aswell.
I respectfully disagree. I think the cultural theories you believe in are alot more inconsistent than the biological ones. But each to his own, I can't really be bothered to get into long discussions anymore.



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10 Aug 2017, 1:05 pm

Chichikov wrote:
Speak for yourselves guys, bi*ches love my body :lol:


Now I resorted to stalking you to get an answer , If your avatar is not Eric Draven who is it?


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10 Aug 2017, 1:11 pm

The question contains a false premise. Men and women react broadly similarly to displays of genitalia when they feel sexually receptive, and when they don't feel sexually receptive. Culture affects both the perception of beauty/ugliness and receptivity/avoidance of sexual feelings. Biology has made male arousal apparent and hidden the physical signs of arousal in women, and Biology has also made men more sexually receptive to some extent. In order to sort out the two, a researcher would have to apply lots of sensors. Psychologists actually do this research. I have to wonder about the effects of self-selection on the sample.


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10 Aug 2017, 1:18 pm

Even when looking at porn, I have to go through a bunch of ugly stuff just to find good stuff. Internet porn has no quality control.